From: Jay Thomas (jay@thomas.vg)
Date: Mon May 14 2001 - 16:33:13 PDT
kragen@pobox.com wrote:
>
> I know it's not good style to inject facts when the rhetoric gets this
> hot, but I'll do it anyway.
>
> Jay Thomas <jay@thomas.vg> writes:
> > Grlygrl201@aol.com wrote:
> > > taking their cue from limbaugh, fox network frames the fact that democrats
> > > garner the minority and women vote as some sort of insult, as if we comprise
> > > a block of undesirable (and somehow more feeble) voters. republicans market
> >
> > Remind me again -- who was it who couldn't figure out a simple butterfly
> > ballot, designed for the feeble minded, by a Democrat? Oh, right,
> > Democrats -- jews and blacks who voted for Buchannan, meaning to vote
> > for Gore. Funny how us "dunderheaded" pubbies could figure it
> > out. Then again, so could most third graders.
>
> I think the error rate was significantly under 1%, which still would
> have been more than enough to swing the election.
Every newspaper/independent recount has given it to Bush. No matter if
it was by 1 vote, he still won the electoral votes, which is how our
system works. Hows that for injecting facts?
> For what it's worth, voting for Bush on that ballot was easy and
> non-confusing.
Apparently not. Many of the disenfranchised complained that they "may
have" voted for Bush.
> You might want to clarify the above paragraph --- are you asserting
> that "jews and blacks" had a harder time filling out the ballot than
> "most third graders" would have? Or just the Democratic "jews and
> blacks"? If that wasn't what you meant, maybe you should explain in
> more detail.
I'm sorry you saw that through a filter of racism - it was certainly not
meant that way. First, I will assert that yes, blacks in Florida *did*
have a harder time filling out the ballots, and not just in WPB but
across the state. By their own admission. And I was not casting
aspersions on the general intelligence of any race, but all you saw in
the weeks afterward, was blacks, led by Jesse, complaining that they
couldn't fill out the ballot properly, and Jesse calling it "another
Selma". Then you saw jews complaining about having lived through the
holocaust, only to be disenfranchised like this. And all I kept
screaming at my TV was ""You disenfranchised yourself!" No one deprived
them of an opportunity. Not reading/following directions is not being
disenfranchised. And, yes, there was a third grade class in Alabama,
later that week, that duplicated the butterfly ballot, and completed it.
All the children had no problems following the directions, and "voting"
Have I explained that clearly eough that I no longer seem like a sheet
wearing cross burner (even though I'm still a republican?)
>
> > Thats the real reason we get so upset when W. keeps trying to reach out
> > to the Gore voters -- we dont want em!! We don't want Democrats to
> > switch sides. We enjoy watching yall look stupid. We enjoy seeing you on
> > TV crying "Help us, we're victims"
>
> That paragraph speaks for itself. I don't think any comment I make
> could increase its rhetorical impact. I just thought I should quote
> it.
Yeah, I thought so too. I have no problems stating that we don't need
voters who can't figure out a ballot properly. This offends you? You
want them, great.
>
> > You want to proclaim youself a member of that fine group, allied with
> > James Carville, Bill Clinton, and Larry Flynt, be my guest. Throw around
> > cute little neologisms like "repugnican", fine. But as a not so poor,
> > white guy from a Bush state, let me tell you, there are no delusions
> > here. W. may have been an unknown, and not all he's done has made me
> > happy, but we knew what we'd get with Gore -- more socialism, more
> > dishonesty, higher taxes, less freedom, and we fought hard. Those of you
> > who keep slinging around that "it costs alot to buy an election" are
> > either totally dishonest or totally stupid. Gore did his best to steal
> > the election and we stopped him. Deal with it/get over it, but I am so
> > sick of hearing it. You sound like petulant children who need a time out
> > and a spanking.
>
> You can't steal something that already belongs to you.
Again, my point exactly. George won it fairly, Gore tried to steal it
but couldn't. You sure we're on opposit sides here?
> The factual evidence is pretty clear at this point. Nobody's ever
> debated that the majority of the US voters voted for Gore. It now
> appears that the majority of Florida voters voted for Gore, too,
> despite widespread election fraud by the Republicans in Florida ---
> turning away eligible, registered voters in large numbers in
> Democratic precincts, for example.
Well, no, they didn't. If they had, Gore would have won the 25 votes,
and would be President. There was no Republican fraud, there has been no
proof. Unlike in Missouri, where Dem lawyers petitioned a Dem judge to
keep polls open an extra two hours, on the complaint of a dead man that
he hadn't been allowed to vote. Someone else mentioned the "discounted"
military absentee ballots, but lets not forget the biased media calling
FL for Gore an hour before polls closed in western FL, which has been
estimated cost Bush 10,000 votes.
> Now he's cracking down on civil liberties;
Really?!? Which ones? Honestly, no sarcasm, what have I missed? Which of
your civil liberties has W. erased??
> he's gotten our country
> ejected from the UN Human Rights Commission and the International
> Narcotics Control Board; and he seems to be trying to start a war with
*He* did that all by himself?? Damn, he's better than I thought. Now, if
he'd just get us kicked all the way out of the UN, then we could boot
those freeloading criminals out of NYC.
> China, the world's biggest nuclear power and one of our biggest
> trading partners.
Yeah, that was pretty clever of him to get Wong Wei to collide his ultra
fast fighter jet with our lumbering prop plane. He is sooooo devious.
> > Shut the fuck up, already.
>
> We still live in something called a "democracy", even if it's a
> corrupt one governed by means of electoral fraud. This means that we
> have a right to talk about whether we agree or disagree with what our
> government is doing and a right to a say in how it's run.
Yes, you are absolutely right, I was over the line on that and have
already appologized.
>
> It's clear from the above-quoted paragraphs that you'd rather we
> didn't exercise those rights.
No, speak your mind. I just get sick of all the liberal agitprop, like
above where you state "facts" that don't exist. And I will speak out
against that kind of speech.
> So if your post is a representative of the Republican party, then the
> Republican party is the party of racist bigotry, personal attacks,
> lying and simultaneously accusing your opponents of lying when they
> tell the truth, and opposition to democracy. In other words, it's the
> party of opposition to traditional American values.
Yeah, right. God forbid a conservative point out a
stupidity/mistake/criminal act of anyone of any color other than his
own. Thats racist.
-- "You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig" -Clint Eastwood, "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly" 1967
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