RE: Happy one-month anniversary, Gnutella.

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From: Burd, Greg (
Date: Thu Apr 13 2000 - 15:15:22 PDT

You bring up a very good point. "simple = quick adoption" seems to be the
rule in network protocol design (and other areas of CS). I think this is
another prime example of a tricky tradeoff for our industry (speed/space,
business needs/technology needs, etc.). So this presents a nifty challenge
to the *enlightened* crew out there. Come up with a way to make the Right
Thing(tm) also the Adopted/Defacto Thing(tm). Maybe even try it out in the
specific case of a replacement for Gnutella's protocol.

The results are in, people get the net. What they don't get is effective
use of the net. Which is what I believe fuels the simple-quick-adopted

So what is the answer? How do the *enlightened* network savy engineers out
there help elevate the adverage protocol designer such that they end up with
an enlightened and elegent design? Where is the object-oriented-like
design/implementation enhancement for protocol designers?

Did that make any sense? FYI, most of you don't know me. Rohit and I go
way back (in Internet time at least) to 1992's NeXTWorld Expo #1 (it was in
1992, right?). We co-authored "Get My Mail Dammit", a NeXTSTEP application
designed to deliver email to/from users of NeXT Computers who only had
access to the Internet via a dial-up/login account at a university. And it
worked like a champ... in 1993 terms. I still laugh at Rohit for having
missed the HTTP/HTML or Web revolution by a fraction of an inch with his project. Almost, Rohit, almost.

Any flames to /dev/null, any donations to my PayPal account



-----Original Message-----
From: Adam Rifkin -4K
Sent: 4/13/2000 5:49 PM
Subject: Happy one-month anniversary, Gnutella.

A friend forwarded me this link which reminds me that we're at the
one-month anniversary of the launch of Gnutella:,4586,2541177,00.html?chkpt=zdhp

It's unfortunate that the zdnet article chooses to linger on the kiddie
porn aspect of gnutella use rather than how stupid the protocol really
is ("Star ping" a friend called it). Let us never forget in the
protocol game that simple = quick adoption, especially when the
applications that use the protocol have pronounced network effects.

> Gnutella ignites porn, pirate worries
> The program's near-perfect anonymity strikes at the very heart of the
> Internet's most troubling issues.
> By Bob Sullivan, MSNBC
> April 13, 2000 5:16 AM PT
> It could undermine the influence of every search engine and every Web
> portal. it's the biggest thorn yet in the side of record companies
> worried about the spread of pirated music on the Net. And it's the
> easiest way yet to trade pornography, even illegal child porn, over
> Internet. For a piece of software that lived for less than 24 hours on
> its home page, Gnutella has created quite a stir.
> It's the stuff of classic Internet lore. A team of programmers from
> inside America Online (NYSE: AOL) released Gnutella on a Web page
> 14. The program is at its core a simple way of trading files,
> pirated copyrighted material, without requiring participants to
> with any central computer. This means that, unlike its music-swap-meet
> cousin Napster, it's virtually impossible to stop.
> That was too much for America Online to bear, and barely 24 hours
> the site was posted, it was removed. Gnutella, the company said, was
> unauthorized project, created by programmers -- led by Winamp creator
> Justin Frankel -- who came to AOL when the company acquired Nullsoft
> June of last year. It disavowed the project and stopped development.
> But the genie was out of the bottle. Nathan Moinvaziri was one of a
> hundred Net users who had downloaded the program. He set up a Web
> posted the software, and soon it had been reverse engineered. "I saw
> something there that no one else had done," he said. "It caught my
> And it has captured the imagination of programmers around the
> Now, dozens of developers are continuing the Gnutella project in a
> Linux-like collaborative effort. At the same time, the program's
> near-perfect anonymity strikes at the very heart of the Internet's
> troubling issues.
> Will this encourage child porn?
> Gnutella users can either connect to the larger "Gnutella" Net or
> their own virtual private networks. And those networks can form
> spontaneously and disappear without a trace. That makes them the
> place for anonymous, untraceable file transfers. Pedophiles have
> discovered this, according to a private investigator who calls himself
> "RedOne."
> "Sure, pedophilia is traded in other ways, but it's just a matter of
> time before people are caught ... (Gnutella) is a place where it could
> flourish. It can't be stopped," the source said.
> During one recent 15-minute session, the former pornography
> said he found 140 instances of child porn. These private Gnutella
> networks are announced in obscure newsgroups or shared quietly among
> small groups, the source said. "I'm seeing people running two
> one for their public stuff and another for their 'good' stuff." Other
> rooms are being created to swap stolen credit-card numbers and pirated
> software, he said.
> Even on the main Gnutella Net, it's obvious many users aren't there
> to hear music. One feature of the program is that users can watch
> searches scour the network in real time. Searches for terms like
> "groupsex," "porn movies," even "young naked," "pre teen" and "teen
> are almost as common as searches for pirated music.
> "You can see what people are searching for," said Ian Hall-Beyer,
> founder of the definitive Gnutella Web site, "But I
> don't know if they're actually finding it." The anonymity Gnutella
> provides may unfortunately promote such behavior, but the good
> the bad, he said: "The whole decentralized aspect of it ... There's no
> censorship at all.
> "If you get a bunch of people who want to share information about
> overturning the Chinese government, they can do that, and there's
> nothing the government can do about it."
> Perfect anonymity is a key strength of Gnutella over Napster because
> government agency can watch what you search for, and no marketing
> department can log your hits and target ads at you.
> "When you send a query to the Gnutella Net, there is not much in it
> can link that query to you," brags Moinvaziri on his Web site.
> Gnutella developers acknowledge that anonymity has a dark side,
> the software can be used to trade illegal pornography, but say that's
> inevitable consequence of an uncensored medium.
> "Child porn is out there, and people do want to exchange it," said
> Kan, a Gnutella developer who also helps run He
> says he hasn't seen any child porn activity, but if it's happening,
> not surprised. He claims that half of all Web searches in any format
> involve pornography.
> "It's really unfortunate. But the Net is just a reflection of reality.
> To us it's all just information, whether it's child porn or fiscal
> reports."
> More pirated music?
> But Gnutella's main attraction is still free music, and there's plenty
> of it. At midday Wednesday, over 140,000 files of all kinds were there
> for the taking, shared by over 1,000 users. A search for "Beatles"
> uncovered 331 songs there for the taking within a few seconds. It's
> those kind of search results that landed Napster's programmers in
> Record companies fear revenues from music sales will be devastated by
> the easy availability of free music.
> The Recording Industry Association of America sued Napster in early
> December, seeking up to $100,000 in damages for each
> song exchanged using the software. If the trade group wins heavy
> damages, it could put Napster, with its 18 employees in San Mateo,
> Calif., out of business.
> Napster's lawyers have in turn employed the "Xerox defense" -- much
> Xerox isn't liable for illegal photocopying done with Xerox copies,
> lawyers for the software firm are arguing individual lawbreakers, and
> not programmers, should be held liable. Further, when Napster is
> notified of specific users who are trading copyrighted material, it
> boots them off the system.
> Gnutella doesn't even have that option, since there is no "system" to
> boot people off of. As long as there are two users with Gnutella
> software, there will be a Gnutella network. To stop it, record
> will have to prosecute individual Net users.
> "Napster has a centralized point where it can be shut down or
> Hall-Beyer said. According to his Web site, the Gnutella program is
> designed to withstand a nuclear war or a frontal attack from record
> company lawyers: "It's very fault tolerant."
> In fact, says Kan, the fault is with the music industry, which was
> simply caught off-guard by the rise of digital music.
> "Today, the record companies are saying MP3s are the biggest evil.
> Tomorrow theyUre going to say they're the greatest thing when they
> figure them out," he said.
> "This really is the format of the future."
> A search engine revolution
> Gnutella has created a stir in part because of its Jimmy Dean-like
> premature death, and because of the cachet that any free music program
> can provide. But to developers, the program's real impact will be much
> more subtle and long-term.
> Gnutella is a new kind of network architecture that enables real-time
> searches of vast libraries. That stands in stark contrast to Web
> crawlers used by search sites like Excite, Lycos and AltaVista. At
> sites, automated computers called "bots" search the Web one site at a
> time, indexing the information at each location. It can take weeks or
> months for a site to crawl the entire Web and add new Web sites.
> Gnutella's peer-to-peer network, compared by one developer to a game
> telephone, allows real-time searching of computers connected to the
> Internet. It also means virtually no dead links.
> "This is really going to replace those stupid Web bots," Kan said.
> "There's going to be some technology that does real-time searching --
> hope it's this. Their solution is obviously antiquated."


.sig double play!

Gnutella can withstand a band of hungry lawyers. How many realtime search technologies can claim that? Not Napster, that's for sure. Just to emphasize how revolutionary this is: hungry lawyers are probably more destructive than nuclear weapons. There are a few things that will prevent Gnutella from being stopped by lawyers, FBI, etc. First, Gnutella is nothing but a protocol. It's just freely-accessible information. There is no company to sue. No one entity is really responsible for Gnutella. Second, Gnutella is not there to promote the piracy of music. It's mainly for sharing recipes and naked pictures of your girlfriend. The important thing is that Gnutella will be here tomorrow. It's reliable, it's sharing terabytes of data, and it is absolutely unstoppable. -- The Gnutella FAQ,

Throughout human history, we have been dependent on machines to survive. Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony. -- Morpheus, The Matrix

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