Re: [Winer] Sun & SOAP: Yes or no?

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From: Mark Baker (
Date: Thu May 18 2000 - 02:54:57 PDT

Boy, there's just far too many factual errors in Dave's post to go into in
detail now.

There is most definitely concensus within Sun on a SOAP position, and I
don't see how Michael's comments on the panel or on the xml-dist-app list
contradict it.

The latest public comment, AFAIK, can be found here;


>From: Adam Rifkin -4K <>
>To: FoRK@XeNT.CoM
>Subject: [Winer] Sun & SOAP: Yes or no?
>Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 17:57:45 -0700 (PDT)
>\me is still watching and waiting for an official announcement from Sun...
>and apparently I'm not the only one.
> >
> > Wednesday, May 17, 2000
> >
> > After talking with Michael Condry on Tuesday, I held no hope for Sun
> > supporting SOAP any time in the near future. I said so on Scripting
> > News. My hopes have been bobbing up and down in the last few days.
> > Before Wednesday's shakedown session, while talking with a key
> > technologist at Iona, up comes Anne Thomas Manes, Sun's director of
> > business strategy. She told a story quite different from Condry's, and
> > in-line with what Baker said on Monday.
> >
> > She wrote a letter, that I have not seen published, but I assume will be
> > shortly, saying that Sun has a full-time engineer working on SOAP and
> > will make a submission to the Apache Group of a SOAP 1.1 server. I asked
> > if she would say so at the shakedown session, she said yes. I didn't
> > call on her because Sun was already represented on the panel by Condry,
> > who was making more sympathetic sounds than I expected, based on
> > yesterday's conversation, but his comments were nowhere near as positive
> > and decisive as Manes. I wanted to save Sun the possible embarassment,
> > and SOAP the confusion, of a public dispute between two Sun execs.
> >
> > I'm confused. I've had the hiearchy explained to me. Baker works for
> > Condry, but I'm not sure if Condry works for Manes. After the session,
> > on the xml-dist-apps mail list, Condry posted several near-flames about
> > SOAP. What is going on?? Either there's major news, or indecision at
> > Sun. A clear statement of support by Sun of SOAP would be the last major
> > milestone before quick deployment of early SOAP-compliant Web apps, the
> > spell checker and jit-se.
> >
> > It's clear that even without Sun's involvement, there is excellent
> > support for Java coming from IBM. But Sun's involvement in the
> > development and deployment process would be awesome.
>All that said, let me be clear: I screwed up. I should have had three
>marketing and sales managers in my back pocket and I should have had the
>nerve to say no [to our CEO candidate]. I should have had the courage
>of my convictions and bet that in another two months, once we had
>started announcing ourselves to the world, we could get anybody we wanted.
> -- Charles Ferguson, _High Stakes, No Prisoners_, p. 169

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