Re: FC: FBI agent reportedly gives public demo of Carnivore

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From: Strata Rose Chalup (
Date: Wed Oct 25 2000 - 14:45:48 PDT

karee wrote:
> [...] ITs like
> searching other homes, but this time, no process of law, just arbitrary
> decision making. Any one else see this as an issue?

Perhaps Microsoft can perform a public service here. The view of the
local network is called "Network Neighborhood" on their OS platforms,
and some enterprising soul could try using that as an argument of
expected network privacy, linking an individual host to a property
container like a house or car in the eyes of the law.

> [...]
> allow a Carnivore box to monitor his communication."
> -- Um. No. Lets try again. I'll admit, that there is a percentage of
> the population willing to be this stupid, [...]

It won't have anything to do with stupidity. It will be buried in the
AUP of your network provider. If it's not already. :-( In language
that is difficult to link to "allow a Carnivore box to monitor", such as
"customer understands that ISP must comply with legal requirements for
system monitoring by authorized government representatives, and agrees
to such monitoring as a condition of use of Service", blah blah.

This is, I presume, why things like the Free/SWAN project exist, because
various people saw this coming and realized that routine encryption
would do much to curtail it. If you only encrypt what you want to hide,
that's a red flag. If encryption is the norm, you're just being normal.

> Marcus Thomas can be contacted for questions at or at
> (730) 632-6091. He is "usually at his desk."

Or just set up a bot on #undernet that repeats his name over and over
along with your cellphone number, and wait for him to call. <--JOKE,
but why aren't I laughing? :-( This whole Carnivore thing is just over
the top, but it was inevitable from the beginning.


Strata Rose Chalup []   |, KF6NBZ
Director of Network Operations            |       VirtualNet Consulting
KnowNow, Inc []     |

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