On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, I Find Karma wrote:
>
> Interesting thing about the story below is that Cara DeCarlo
> is telling the truth, and so is Jason Miller, and yet at times
> their stories are contradictory. It's all about PERCEPTIONS, of course.
>
> The double "> >" is what appears in the interview.
> The single ">" is Jason Miller, aka greenday@openix.com ...
> who I'll refer to from herein as just "Jason", and who I note
> is different from Jason Holmes, author of the interview.
> The "Adam" below is, of course, yours truly.
>
> For context, Cara and Andrew are undergrads at Ohio State, Jason's
> dropped out of high school and presently lives in Livingston, New
> Jersey, and of course, you know I've been a grad student for forever at
> Caltech...
>
> > From greenday@landslide.openix.com Wed Apr 16 16:34:47 1997
> > To: ChefDog27@aol.com
> > Subject: Re: Green Day.com/Cara DeCarlo
> >
> > On Wed, 16 Apr 1997 ChefDog27@aol.com wrote:
> > > How much of this is actully true?
> > >
> > > SPECIAL INTERVIEW: THE STORY BEHIND WWW.GREENDAY.COM
> > > **********************************************************
> > > * JH - Jason Holmes
> > > * CD - Cara Decarlo (former co-owner of www.greenday.com)*
> >
> > That is incorrect. She was never a co-owner of www.greenday.com.
> > Since it was moved to greenday.com, it has been Adam and me all the
> > way. Now it is fully owned by Green Day.
>
> Since it moved to www.greenday.com , Jason Miller's been doing most
> of the cool changes. I just was supportive in his doing so.
>
> Cara co-owned the pages that eventually led to greenday.com -
> but greenday.com isn't a company in the normal sense, being we never
> made any money off it (in fact, we lost a bunch!)
>
> > > **********************************************************
> > >
> > > JH - Could you tell us about how www.greenday.com first started and
> > > how it has progressed in the four years since?
> > >
> > > CD - Well, it was originally just Adam's site. My friend told me
> > > about it in about late December of 94 or January of 95, and I
> > > remember that there was not too much on it. I wrote to Adam and
> > > told him that I was a totally diehard fan and said that if he needed
> > > any help with anything, that I would love to help. As they say, the
> > > rest is history. Along the way, we added all kinds of stuff to it.
> > > I helped him to scan pictures, type articles and whatever, and he
> > > did all the actual technical work. We were a great team! We got
> > > things done, etc. I don't remember how Jason (Miller) entered the
> > > picture,
>
> This is all true. Later, Andrew joined us and then Jason.
>
> > All the content was redesigned by me, including the interface.
>
> This is also true. Jason had a lot of information at his own site, and
> later he combined the two, redesigning the content, and putting it all
> at www.greenday.com
>
> > > but I know he just popped up one day with all his glorious stories
> > > and fantastic solutions, and we believed him.
> >
> > I would hope Adam still believes me, because if he doesn't, he's doing a
> > really good job of pretending.
>
> Cara's right, Jason had lots of cool stories. And yes, I believe Jason,
> and I still believe Jason.
>
> > > He decided that he wanted to take over, and it started going
> > > downhill from there, cuz he caused all kinds of problems.
> >
> > They were two different sites. I had one and Adam had one. And we
> > combined them. Cara obviously doesn't like me because of personal
> > reasons, i.e. Andrew Clute is one of her best friends (who, may I add, is
> > having his domains taken away by Green Day's management in a few weeks).
>
> Jason didn't decide that he wanted to take over, though I can see how
> Cara and Andrew can see it that way. See, Jason was really into the
> site, and as a result, he added a lot more stuff to it.
>
> And that was fine by me, but I should have cleared it with Cara and
> Andrew, since they are important, too. The error in judgment was
> my own.
>
> Cara and Andrew do not dislike Jason; I think they just wish he would
> keep them more informed.
>
> As for Green Day's management taking sites away from anyone, I wish we
> could just settle our differences and let the past fade away.
>
> > > JH - When you and Adam Rifken started the site, where did you get your
> > > information from and what kind of stuff was on the site?
>
> My name is "Adam Rifkin" for the record. :)
>
> > > CD - We basically got our info from magazines, word of mouth, emails
> > > and the news. We didn't have too much to go by, but at the same
> > > time, the band had not yet completely exploded with their whole
> > > Dookie phenomenon. What was on the site? Hmmm, there were pictures,
> > > some articles... I suggested to make a quotes page, and we together
> > > came up with the fan pages. I think I also came up with the trivia
> > > page, but then we started to run out of facts for the questions! It
> > > was pretty basic.
>
> This is all true.
>
> > > JH - When did other Green Day sites begin to start popping up?
> > >
> > > CD - When we started. there was probably only one or two other
> > > sites.
>
> One of which was Jason's.
>
> > > Others really appeared after the start of 1995. Or after the
> > > Grammies... (whenever those are)
>
> February 1995.
>
> > > JH - The counter is currently at over 800,000. When did the site start
> > > becoming really popular?
>
> When "When I Come Around" started becoming popular, in December 1994.
>
> > > CD - It started becoming really popular when we changed the name to
> > > greenday.com, cuz for some reason it never got advertised much
> > > before that.
>
> The reason being, I never advertised it. :)
>
> > > I guess we happened to be on people's links pages and all, and I
> > > started to get tons of mail (I wanted to answer all the mail since I
> > > couldn't do anything with the actual creating of the page). I can't
> > > remember exactly when we changed the name, but it was Jason's idea.
> > > It was in the middle of the Dookie craze.
> >
> > At least she gave me credit for SOMETHING. Actually, Adam and I changed
> > the name. She had nothing to do with it. Adam was at my house (we were
> > about to go see GD) and we registered the domain and assigned the DNS.
>
> November 1995.
>
> > > JH - There is a rumour going around that you and Adam Rifken were
> > > bumped out of the creation of the site by Jason Miller. Is this true?
> > >
> > > CD - Pretty much.
>
> Not true, though I can see why Cara thinks so. I've been busy for the
> last 18 months, and not really contributed to the site much in that
> time, so Jason is the one maintaining the site right now.
>
> > Anyone who doesn't believe Adam is a part of the site still... email me
> > and I'll forward you mails from Adam.
>
> I'm definitely part of the site still.
>
> And I back Jason AND Cara AND Andrew 100%.
>
> > > For some reason he feels this need to have total power, and if he
> > > doesn't he wants to whine, tell people more of his stories to make
> > > him seem like the victim and the good guy, when in essence, the way
> > > he is, he is very controlling and a crybaby.
> >
> > That's not true at all. Actually... I don't whine to anyone. I don't
> > bash HER with complete lies, do i?
>
> True, Jason doesn't say bad things about Cara.
>
> As for the whining, I haven't heard it.
>
> I have seen Jason send some mean emails to Andrew, and I really think
> that was wrong. I think we're all still friends, and hopefully we can
> put this behind us.
>
> Jason thinks Cara and Andrew don't contribute to the page.
> Cara and Andrew think Jason won't let them contribute to the page.
>
> So who's right? Well, they both are. It's a perceptions thing again.
> I should be a better communicator and help them resolve their
> differences. But everyone has to agree become friendly again to let
> that happen.
>
> Yes, Cara and Andrew helped a lot to get it started, and yes Jason has
> done a lot to keep it going, but those are not conflicting things.
> Everyone deserves some credit for the success.
>
> > > JH - Do you get a little bit jealous or bitter now seeing that
> > > greenday.com is the official site of Green Day and you are no longer
> > > part of it?
> > >
> > > CD - No, I really don't even think about it.
>
> I would like to see Cara and Andrew again be part of it, especially
> since they both now do excellent Web page design themselves -- Cara's
> Sex Pistols page is cool, and Andrew's Tilt page is wonderful!
>
> As for the site being the official site of Green Day, well Jason had
> everything to do with that, so he's the one to thank.
>
> > > Greenday.com I don't consider a worthy site anymore.
>
> It is worthy, though with more contributers it would be better.
>
> > > It is all manufactured, all in an attempt to get himself popular.
> >
> > I don't need the 'net to make myself popular. I need it to make money to
> > survive and next time you drop out of high school and get kicked out of
> > your house, then you'll understand.
>
> Jason's a cool guy, and he's had a rough life. But he's a good worker
> and a good web designer, and he'll probably go to either Netscape or
> Reprise Records starting in May...
>
> > > Before Jason joined, the site was a creation of FANS, who
> > > did it for the love of the band, not to get famous.
> >
> > And you're turning it into something political for the love of the band.
> > Bullshit!
>
> It is still, and still should be, a creation of the fans. I've just
> been too busy myself to keep up with it, so I'm passing the torch for now.
>
> > > Don't get me wrong, Jason is (or at least was) a big Green Day fan.
>
> He is.
>
> > > But when I look at this site now, it makes me sick. It is totally
> > > like a business now. I don't want any part of that. I still talk
> > > with Adam regularly, we are still really great friends.
>
> It's true, I think Cara is so cool! And Andrew is very cool too.
> And of course, Jason's awesome, too.
>
> > > I have my own homepage, and a link to greenday.com... I guess that
> > > is cuz it will always be me and Adam's baby. WE got it off the
> > > ground, not Jason. He wants all the credit, when we had that thing
> > > running for at least 6 months before he showed up.
> >
> > Again, I had a site up for a WHILE before I joined up with Adam.
> > I talk to Adam all the time... and one other note: greenday.com has always
> > been my domain. It's a business now because I dropped out of high school
> > and have to make money.
>
> Cara AND Andrew AND Jason all contributed to the site's success.
> Yes, it did really start with Cara. And yes, Jason had his own site
> too at the time. And yes, Andrew contributed a bunch, too.
>
> And yes, Jason needs the business to make money.
>
> > > JH - Do you or Adam or Jason know the members of Green Day personally?
> > >
> > > CD - I don't, and I don't believe Adam has ever met them (he surely
> > > would have told me).
> >
> > Adam HAS meet the band. At the taping for Saturday Night Special.
>
> No, I didn't meet them then. Although I did see Tre Cool give a little
> kid in the audience a mop from the custodial closet ("Daddy, the guy
> from Green Day gave me a mop..."). And I did see BJ when I was walking
> to the bathroom.
>
> But I'm not hip, and I couldn't really think of anything to say to them
> that would keep me from feeling like a dork. So no, I didn't meet them.
> I did see them perform then, though. So did Michelle. And there were
> only like 100 of us in the crowd, so that was pretty cool.
>
> > > Jason claims he met them, but he has all kinds of stories.
>
> I don't think Jason's met the band, but he knows them.
>
> > > Most of them are a big fat pile of BS too. He made all these
> > > promises for us, like how we were gonna have some benefit with the
> > > band, meet them, blah blah blah. Ask me if THAT ever happened? No
> > > way. Nothing Jason ever promised us ever happened, so I just never
> > > believe anything he says. I know that the band knows of our
> > > existance tho, and that is kinda cool!
>
> Yep, that is kinda cool.
>
> > Maybe that's because I never promised her anything! I tried to put
> > together a benefit show and it didn't work. Minor technicality
> > because I was 15 years old! That makes a lot of sense.
>
> This is true. Jason will get better at concert promotion as he gets
> older... :)
>
> I guess I promised Cara that Reprise might hire one or more of us for
> intern jobs, but that never really gelled. So I guess it's my fault for
> making the expectations too high.
>
> Reprise and Green Day both do know about our site -- they even made it
> official -- so that was pretty cool.
>
> And Green Day is still the best rock band on the planet, punk or not.
>
> > I haven't MET the band. I KNOW them. It's not just as simple as
> > meeting them (they control the site content) and if she'd like to bash me
> > even further, I don't give two shits about what she has to think. I don't
> > have a reputation to protect. This is a job. The 'net may be YOUR life or
> > HER life, but I actually have a social life and when I'm not working you
> > can bet your ass I'm doing something else. Besides, I have better things
> > to do than listen to people kiss my ass and talk shit about me behind my
> > back.
>
> True, I can vouch for Jason having lots of better things to do.
> For example, his record label Cyclone Records keeps him busy.
> And his band Attention Deficit rocks hard. :)
>
> > > JH - Is there anything else you would like people to know about
> > > greenday.com or anything else you want to get off your chest?
> > >
> > > CD - Hmmmm, lemme think... just that Jason has GREAT fantasies, but
> > > nothing he says ever happens.
>
> Someday, some things might happen. You have to believe.
>
> > > I think making this site the official site was the only "promise" he
> > > ever made that ever came true. But he decided that he didn't
> > > wanna talk to me anymore about a year and a half ago.
> >
> > Oh. maybe that's because she never emailed me. I took EVERYONE'S name
> > off of the site, if that's what your bitter about, including mine.
>
> She's not bitter, Jason. She just wants to be friends.
> And so do you.
>
> You just have to relax a little, and life's pretty good.
>
> > > Know what? I have not lost any sleep over it! As far as I am
> > > concerned, all that page needs is me and Adam, and he lost both of
> > > us.
>
> Jason didn't lose me. And I hope he didn't lose Cara either.
> I think we're still all in this together.
>
> > > I hope he is happy now! It seems like the only person he is ever
> > > concerned about is himself anyway.
>
> Jason's a very caring person, both of others and himself.
> He just sometimes gets a little angry at the world, but then
> again, don't we all?
>
> > > About greenday.com, well, it is a huge and informative site, but I'd
> > > rather look at the smaller sites now, cuz those are created by fans
> > > who still love the band.
>
> Which is, of course, cool.
>
> Grassroots is what the Web is all about, and when a site grows and grows
> to become THE canonical site on something, it loses the look and feel of
> a grassroots, down-in-the-dirt, totally-dedicated-lone-gunman web site.
>
> But that's fine. greenday.com can't be all things to all people, and
> that's where all the fan-created pages become a nice complement to the
> official site. It's totally awesome. I think EVERYONE should make a
> Green Day page of their very own. :)
>
> In greenday.com becoming more popular and thus losing the focused
> attention of a small fan base... well, one could say the same thing
> happened to Green Day itself. But it doesn't change the fact that Green
> Day is awesomely wonderful, nor should it change the fact that so is
> greenday.com ...
>
> > > I know I do, and I know Adam does, but we are not a part of the page
> > > anymore.
> >
> > To Cara: Don't speak for Adam, because you know he'd contradict what you
> > said about him.
>
> Well, about contributing content, it's true, I don't do that anymore,
> because school keeps me busy.
>
> Jason does a good job of doing that right now, and I think if Cara
> and Andrew re-joined our effort, they would do a good job of that, too.
>
> > > Like I said before, greenday.com is more of a business than a fan
> > > page, and THAT is really sad. It started out so well, too...
> >
> > Adam is most definitely a part of the page. She's completely
> > bullshitting. I'm actually staying at Adam's house in Pasadena in May.
> > He's one of my best friends. email him. He'll tell you.
>
> She's not bullshitting, it's just that I work with the page in a
> different way now. This way I spend my time on school, because that's
> my priority. But yes, I am still a part of the page.
>
> As for coming in May, you may have to clear that with Michelle... :)
>
> > This is the one and only response I will make to this deliberate attempt
> > to make me look bad. I refuse to get into a childish argument with
> > anyone. I don't have time for it.
>
> Jason's cool. Cara's cool. Andrew's cool. Arguments aren't cool.
> But it's something we would have to work out together.
>
> And working stuff out requires every participant wanting that.
>
> I can't speak for everyone, but I do want to work stuff out.
>
> :) Adam
>
> ----
> adam@cs.caltech.edu
>
> Bite my lip and close my eyes, take me away to paradise...
> -- Green Day
>