Cloning and Politics

Robert Harley
Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:11:55 +0100 (CET)

>Okay, Harley, right back at ya:
>So here's the problem: you've rescoped your claim by introducing some
>notion of "relevance."

Terrible of me.  So sorry about it!  :)

>thanks for the reincarnation of what was otherwise a dead thread

All part of the service.  You see, I have to revive it and keep the
argument going to out-Bone the Bone.  Who blonks first?  Err... blinks
first?  (Typo, but I think I'll leave it in for amusement value :)

>In fact, immortal mouse embryonic stem cell lines were successfully
>established in the early 80s IIRC.  So let's check Google...  [...]
>    Finally, in 1981 murine embryonic stem cells were successfully
>    derived from the inner mass of mouse blastocysts and placed
>    into specific culture whose conditions allowed for unlimited
>    self-renewal of these cells. [1]

There's a step from "complete bullshit" and "absolutely false" to
"they were found in mice before".  However the human lines were not
'immortal' until made so by the technique described (for other cells) in:

  "Extension of Life-Span by Introduction of Telomerase into Normal Human Cells"
  Bodnar, Ouellette, Frolkis, Holt, Chiu, Morin, Harley, Shay, Lichtsteiner and Wright
  Science, 16 January 1998 (*)

The Harley author is no relation (AFAIK), but a woman that I had a big
crush on once upon a time in my youth was doing her PhD with these guys...