NYTimes: email from Israel

Grlygrl201@aol.com Grlygrl201@aol.com
Tue, 2 Oct 2001 14:37:16 EDT


--part1_12.1354ff22.28eb635c_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 10/2/01 11:39:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jbone@jump.net 
writes:


> Grlygrl201@aol.com wrote:
> 
> > more shoulds per square inch between you and jeff, and no
> > demonstrable understanding of what being a jew means to a jew.
> 
> Perhaps the problem isn't no demonstrable understanding, rather
> complete understanding and complete rejection of its validity?

Who the hell are you to validate or invalidate?

> 
> You don't get it, do you Geege:  That Doesn't Matter. 


doesn't matter to YOU

> Irish, Navajo, Purple, or a Garlic Lover SHOULDN'T (ahem) 
> accord you any special status in civilization. 

unless you believe it does, which is not something handed down as a decision 
by the board of directors of how things ought to be in jeff's world.

> nd that's not a statement of ideals, it's an observation:  look at what 
> happens when we differentiate.

right, according ot you, you never make statements of ideals, even as you 
make them.  what do you call all your "shouldisms"?


> 
> > judaism is not something they tack on after your nationality, as a
> > subset.  it is genetic, passed down thru the mother. it is a belief
> > in being the, not a, chosen people (why else would physiological
> > heritage matter?).
> 
> Wow, now that makes a lot of sense.  "It is genetic...  it is a
> belief..."  And you know, the whole language here rubs me the wrong
> way:  "the, not a, chosen people" doesn't sound so far away from the
> ubermensch, does it?  I sense subtle but deep hypocrisy lurking
> here...


it's THEIR BELIEF, bone.  they're not out to kill or change the world order - 
or even to proselytize.

> 
> > i know exactly where you've drawn your line: fine and well, you say,
> > but why do we have to (literally) buy into their beliefs?  because
> > they won't change them, we do what is pragmatic: nation build.
> 
> Go look up pragmatism, Geege.  You're using it incorrectly.


I'm using it exactly as i intended, Jeff.  Substitute "practical."  I didn't 
get to finish my thought on lineage because took a bodily damage break, but I 
was beginning to explain why Jews are not exactly like Babtists or Catholics 
or Mormons, who's belief system does not incorporate the value "homeland."  

> 
> jb



--part1_12.1354ff22.28eb635c_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/2/01 11:39:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jbone@jump.net writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Grlygrl201@aol.com wrote:
<BR>
<BR>&gt; more shoulds per square inch between you and jeff, and no
<BR>&gt; demonstrable understanding of what being a jew means to a jew.
<BR>
<BR>Perhaps the problem isn't no demonstrable understanding, rather
<BR>complete understanding and complete rejection of its validity?</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Who the hell are you to validate or invalidate?
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<BR>You don't get it, do you Geege: &nbsp;That Doesn't Matter. </FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>doesn't matter to YOU
<BR>
<BR> Being Jewish, <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Irish, Navajo, Purple, or a Garlic Lover SHOULDN'T (ahem) accord you any special status in civilization. </FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">unless you believe it does, which is not something handed down as a decision by the board of directors of how things ought to be in jeff's world.</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>A<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">nd that's not a statement of ideals, it's an observation: &nbsp;look at what happens when we differentiate.</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR>right, according ot you, you never make statements of ideals, even as you make them. &nbsp;what do you call all your "shouldisms"?
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<BR>&gt; judaism is not something they tack on after your nationality, as a
<BR>&gt; subset. &nbsp;it is genetic, passed down thru the mother. it is a belief
<BR>&gt; in being the, not a, chosen people (why else would physiological
<BR>&gt; heritage matter?).
<BR>
<BR>Wow, now that makes a lot of sense. &nbsp;"It is genetic... &nbsp;it is a
<BR>belief..." &nbsp;And you know, the whole language here rubs me the wrong
<BR>way: &nbsp;"the, not a, chosen people" doesn't sound so far away from the
<BR>ubermensch, does it? &nbsp;I sense subtle but deep hypocrisy lurking
<BR>here...</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>it's THEIR BELIEF, bone. &nbsp;they're not out to kill or change the world order - or even to proselytize.
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<BR>&gt; i know exactly where you've drawn your line: fine and well, you say,
<BR>&gt; but why do we have to (literally) buy into their beliefs? &nbsp;because
<BR>&gt; they won't change them, we do what is pragmatic: nation build.
<BR>
<BR>Go look up pragmatism, Geege. &nbsp;You're using it incorrectly.</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>I'm using it exactly as i intended, Jeff. &nbsp;Substitute "practical." &nbsp;I didn't get to finish my thought on lineage because took a bodily damage break, but I was beginning to explain why Jews are not exactly like Babtists or Catholics or Mormons, who's belief system does not incorporate the value "homeland." &nbsp;
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<BR>jb</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR></FONT></HTML>

--part1_12.1354ff22.28eb635c_boundary--