NYTimes: email from Israel

Jeff Bone jbone@jump.net
Tue, 02 Oct 2001 13:50:49 -0500

Grlygrl201@aol.com wrote:

> Who the hell are you to validate or invalidate?

Just expressing an opinion --- though one based on observation of all
the trouble "tribalism" has caused worldwide throughout history.

> unless you believe it does, which is not something handed down as a
> decision by the board of directors of how things ought to be in
> jeff's world.

"Jeff's world" (whatever that is) isn't controlled by a board of
directors or anybody else, thanks.  Nice attempt to paint me as the
evil capitalist in favor of corporatocracy, Geege, I'll take that as a
high compliment. :-)

> right, according ot you, you never make statements of ideals, even
> as you make them.  what do you call all your "shouldisms"?

Get off the "should" thing, it's just a word and unfortunately a
necessary one when discussing things that don't exist today but would
be potential improvements.

As for ideals vs. pragmatism / practicality, again...  In the past I
have perhaps made (and will probably in the future continue to
occasionally make) the mistake of arguing using the rhetoric of
ideals.  What's interesting to me is results, nothing more, nothing
less.  My position in this argument:  clearly, tribalism is a
pathologically flawed concept that *ALWAYS* creates undesirable
outcomes.  It should not be tolerated any longer.  Choosing to not
tolerate tribalism is an action founded on pragmatism --- concern for
effects rather than ideals.

> it's THEIR BELIEF, bone.  they're not out to kill or change the
> world order - or even to proselytize.

And I would call it a silly belief, if it were not so dangerous.  Look
at the result of putting their belief into action.  To summarize the
belief:  "the Jews need a homeland where they can be safe from the
ravages of the world.  We need segregation as a necessary component of
our security."  Net result:  decades of turmoil.

> I'm using it exactly as i intended, Jeff.  Substitute "practical."

Fine, you're using that word incorrectly, too --- or at a minimum
abusing it.  Look up practical.  Just to save you the effort, from
dictionary.com, note the *first* definition:

     prac·ti·cal (prakt-ih-kuhl) adj. 1.  Of, relating to,
     governed by, or acquired through practice or action, rather
     than theory, speculation, or ideals: gained practical
     experience of sailing as a deck hand.

We can clearly see the practical results of Zionism in the history of
the Middle East over the last 40ish years.  It is patently *not* a
"practical" solution to the problem of achieving peace, stability, and
security for any of the players involved, *including* Jewish
Israelis.  It is instead an idealistic / unrealistic / impractical
illusion defended by Jewish denial and blood and subsidized by
American guilt and dollars.

> I didn't get to finish my thought on lineage because took a bodily
> damage break, but I was beginning to explain why Jews are not
> exactly like Babtists or Catholics or Mormons, who's belief system
> does not incorporate the value "homeland."

Okay, let me be more specific, then:  any religious / ethnic belief
system that incorporates the value "homeland" is primitive, dangerous,
and incompatible with Western civilization in the long haul.