Infoworld: WebDAV Comes of Age

=?iso-8859-1?B?SvZzaA==?= josh@bluescreen.org
Tue, 23 Oct 2001 12:13:48 -0400


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RE: Infoworld: WebDAV Comes of AgeWhat I've heard is similar to what Jim =
said. =20
The short answer is "yes" any application can save to DAV. =20
THe longer answer is "Yes" but with extra work.

Firstly, just to clarify, win2000/Office2000/IE5 has had DAV
support via a shell extension.  This is what provides
the functionality in IE, web folders, office save etc.
This works for any app that uses the new shell features correctly.
This does not work for 'standard' applications or the fopen() case.
I just hate that they say "DAV is in XP" when really Microsoft
has been doing DAV "forever" :)


This explanation is from talking to a friend recently,=20
who worked on the windows networking team for "a long time". =20
This was 'the plan' for DAV in whistler/blackholmb, eg XP.
Im assuming its true...

WinXP has included DAV support in "The Redirector" which is
the low level kernel/system interface that goes below the calls=20
like fopen().  However, it does not allow you to call fopen OR
a standard (old) file dialog with a URI.
What actually gets done is that you can declare a network
place with DAV that acts like an SMB share, eg
it gets mapped to a drive letter.   So, you can
make X: point to " http://dav.server.com/foo/".
>From that point on, after the mapping is set,
any standard win32 or console app will see it as a standard
drive, just like a "normal" local drive or network SMB drive.

Im not as familiar with the deep windows networking,
so vagueness is my own error. =20
Though it sounds similar to the win2k experience, the key
difference is that the DAV redirect is happening below the=20
system call level, wherase in 2k DAV redirect was at the
shell level.   It hasnt changed any of the high level APIs
or even added new ones (as far as I know), but changed
the underlying magic.  The downside is that you have
to treat it as a mapped drive, eg X: in applications,
you cant enter a URI into notepad.   I dont
know if its a real problem aside from looking ugly.

For those who dont use windows, the SMB mapped drive
is similar to how ramdisks appear, just fake drives
that expose standard filesystem semantics, but have
magiv behind them that translates requests into
ram requests, SMB  or DAV,etc..

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Mike Dierken=20
  To: FoRK@xent.com=20
  Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 3:09 PM
  Subject: RE: Infoworld: WebDAV Comes of Age


  Well, cool. It's about time.=20
  Now we can finally Save to the Web.=20




  > -----Original Message-----=20
  > From: Jim Whitehead [mailto:ejw@cse.ucsc.edu]=20
  > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 11:51 AM=20
  > To: Mr. FoRK; FoRK@xent.com=20
  > Subject: RE: Infoworld: WebDAV Comes of Age=20
  >=20
  >=20
  > Mr. FoRK writes:=20
  > > > Windows XP is notable because it enables any application=20
  > running on top=20
  > > > of it to be WebDAV-enabled as well.=20
  > > Backward compatible or a new API?=20
  >=20
  > Backward compatible.=20
  >=20
  > > Can you use Notepad to talk over WebDAV?=20
  >=20
  > Yes.=20
  >=20
  > > Have they hooked below fopen() and other standard APIs?=20
  >=20
  > Yes.=20
  >=20
  > All to the best of my knowledge. I have not actually used XP.=20
  >=20
  > - Jim=20
  >=20
  >=20
  > http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork=20
  >=20


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<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>RE: Infoworld: WebDAV Comes of Age</TITLE>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What I've heard is similar to what Jim =
said.&nbsp;=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The short answer is "yes" any =
application can save=20
to DAV.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>THe longer answer is "Yes" but with =
extra=20
work.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Firstly, just to clarify, =
win2000/Office2000/IE5=20
has had DAV</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>support via a shell extension.&nbsp; =
This is what=20
provides</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the functionality in IE, web folders, =
office save=20
etc.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This works for any app that uses the =
new shell=20
features correctly.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This does not work for 'standard' =
applications or=20
the fopen() case.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I just hate that they say "DAV is in =
XP" when=20
really Microsoft</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>has been doing DAV "forever" =
:)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This explanation is from talking to a =
friend=20
recently, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>who worked on </FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>the=20
windows networking team for "a long time".&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This </FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>was 'the plan'=20
for DAV in whistler/blackholmb, eg XP.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Im assuming its true...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>WinXP has included DAV support in "The =
Redirector"=20
which is</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the low level kernel/system interface =
that goes=20
below the calls </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>like fopen().&nbsp; However, it does =
not allow you=20
to call fopen OR</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>a standard (old) file dialog with a=20
URI.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What actually gets done is that you can =
declare a=20
network</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>place with DAV that acts like an SMB =
share,=20
eg</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>it gets mapped to a drive =
letter.&nbsp;&nbsp; So,=20
you can</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>make X: point to " <A=20
href=3D"http://dav.server.com/foo/">http://dav.server.com/foo/</A>".</FON=
T></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>From that point on, after the mapping =
is=20
set,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>any standard win32 or console app will =
see it as a=20
standard</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>drive, just like a "normal" local drive =
or network=20
SMB drive.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Im not as familiar with the deep =
windows=20
networking,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>so vagueness is my own error.&nbsp; =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Though it sounds similar to the win2k =
experience,=20
the key</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>difference is that the DAV redirect is =
happening=20
below the </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>system call level, wherase in 2k DAV =
redirect was=20
at the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>shell level.&nbsp;&nbsp; It hasnt =
changed any of=20
the high level APIs</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>or even added new ones (as far as I =
know), but=20
changed</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the underlying magic.&nbsp; The =
downside is that=20
you have</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>to treat it as a mapped drive, eg X: in =

applications,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>you cant enter a URI into =
notepad.&nbsp;&nbsp; I=20
dont</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>know if its a real problem aside from =
looking=20
ugly.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>For those who dont use windows, the SMB =
mapped=20
drive</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>is similar to how ramdisks appear, just =
fake=20
drives</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>that expose standard filesystem =
semantics, but=20
have</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>magiv behind them that translates =
requests=20
into</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>ram requests, SMB&nbsp; or =
DAV,etc..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:mike@DataChannel.com" =
title=3Dmike@DataChannel.com>Mike=20
  Dierken</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:FoRK@xent.com"=20
  title=3DFoRK@xent.com>FoRK@xent.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, October 22, 2001 =
3:09=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: Infoworld: WebDAV =
Comes of=20
  Age</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>Well, cool. It's about time. </FONT><BR><FONT =
size=3D2>Now we=20
  can finally Save to the Web.</FONT> </P><BR><BR>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>&gt;=20
  From: Jim Whitehead [<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:ejw@cse.ucsc.edu">mailto:ejw@cse.ucsc.edu</A>]</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2>&gt; Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 11:51 AM</FONT> <BR><FONT =

  size=3D2>&gt; To: Mr. FoRK; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:FoRK@xent.com">FoRK@xent.com</A></FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>&gt;=20
  Subject: RE: Infoworld: WebDAV Comes of Age</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>&gt;=20
  </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; Mr. FoRK =

  writes:</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; Windows XP is notable =
because=20
  it enables any application </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; running on =
top</FONT>=20
  <BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; of it to be WebDAV-enabled as =
well.</FONT>=20
  <BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; &gt; Backward compatible or a new API?</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; Backward =
compatible.</FONT> <BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; &gt; Can you use Notepad =
to talk over=20
  WebDAV?</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; =
Yes.</FONT>=20
  <BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; &gt; Have they =
hooked below=20
  fopen() and other standard APIs?</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; =
</FONT><BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2>&gt; Yes.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT =
size=3D2>&gt; All=20
  to the best of my knowledge. I have not actually used XP.</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; - Jim</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>&gt;=20
  </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; <A=20
  href=3D"http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork"=20
  target=3D_blank>http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork</A></FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2>&gt; </FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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