Why Do They Hate Us?

Bill Humphries bill@whump.com
Tue, 30 Oct 2001 22:16:49 -0800

On Tuesday, October 30, 2001, at 08:26 PM, Bill Stoddard wrote:

> Careful with the assumptions you are making Whump. I assume you are not 
> just taking a
> cheap shot.

I wasn't, given everything I've heard on this list after the attacks...

>   I'd never advocate such a thing, ever.

Okay. Good, End of that matter.

>  If the Saudi's want a democracy, I am
> all for it but the fact is, the internal powers interested in (and 
> perhaps capable of)
> overthrowing the Saudi government don't have democracy in mind. Do you 
> disagree?

To the best of my knowledge, there are pro-democracy Saudi dissidents. How 
large a faction they are in comparison to the Islamic Fascists, I don't 

However, there is a large middle class who are out of work and not getting 
out what they are putting into that economy. That's the group you work 

> IMHO, democracy has ZERO chance of working in
> Saudi Arabia or any other country dominated by religious fundamentalists,
>  Muslim or
> otherwise. So enlighten me I am all ears. And if you convince me, I'll 
> join you because I
> am interested in solutions that work.

I think it's possible because in those sorts of societies, the 
fundamentalists are a minority. In Saudi Arabia that's the ruling family, 
and the clerics.

However, it does take what others have mentioned in this thread, the 
construction of those democratic institutions. Followed by writing 
constitutions, and finally elections, etc.

In the case of Saudi Arabia, I think it would take an intervention. But if 
we are interested in quelling the current variety of terrorism, I think it 
may be necessary.

It's also worth noting that, according to a NYT reporter interviewed on 
the 10/30/01 Fresh Aire (www.freshaire.org), that the recent arrests in 
Europe have been of people who are second generation French. And they came 
out of the French equivalent of "The Projects".

Again, poverty and insecurity feed fundamentalism.

> The US has done a lot of good in the world. So have the "evil" 
> multinational
> corporations. When some jackass sets up their arguments based on the 
> premise that America
> (and multinational corps, oil companies, whatever) are oppressing evil 
> bastards, that is a
> tip off that these people are NOT interested in solving problems

Why does a critique of multinationals imply the speaker is not interested 
in solving problems? What I'm thinking here is that you disagree with 
their solution. Not the same thing.

And what is this shadowy agenda they have?

Do you think every person who disagrees with US policy (economic/military/
etc) is a dilettante?