stop posting in html (and politics)
Mon, 1 Apr 2002 01:34:09 -0500
> -----Original Message-----
> From: email@example.com [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org]On Behalf Of Luis
> On Mon, 2002-04-01 at 00:34, Jeffrey Kay wrote:
> > AND -- your last posts expressed much of what I have been wondering of late -- how on
> > earth can anyone sympathize with Palestinian suicide bombings after Sept. 11th?
> So, I don't agree with or sympathize a whole lot with the Palestinians;
> terror should never, under any circumstances, be a political tool. So
> the next paragraph is mainly me playing of devil's advocate.
Understood -- my response is an attempt to address the issue that you raise.
> That disclaimer out of the way: when was the last time the US occupied
> Afghanistan for 30+ years, attempted to make Afghanistan a state by
> seeding settlers throughout Kabul, or denied the Afghani people the
> right to visit their own religious shrines and the ability to move about
> freely? Ditto for the Saudis.
> So, having answered that question, try to tell me there is /no/
> difference between Palestinian terror and Afghani/Saudi terror? And /no/
> reason why anyone can sympathize?*
> Like I said... I don't sympathize. I think the killing of innocent
> civilians is cowardly, reprehensible, etc. But it's easy to see, I
> think, how people can make a distinction between the Palestinians and Al
> Queda, even if I don't really make that distinction myself.
Your point goes to the heart of the issue that I believe was closed by decisions made in
1948 -- that the State of Israel should exist. Much of the discussion ends up reopening
that decision as a means of justifying the actions of the Palestinians today which I
believe is faulty logic.
The reason I believe that it is faulty is that, at present, the Palestinians have
purportedly claimed that they want a state of their own -- a new Palestine. This is the
basis upon which everyone is supposedly operating. The problem is that their actions
don't jibe with this. They've been offered virtually everything at the negotiating table
that they've asked for. The contentious "right of return" issue is really a workable
one -- likely through permitting a small group of Palestinians to return with the others
forming the new Palestine. They've been offered over 90% of the land that they want.
They've been offered East Jerusalem. The price for that land is peace -- they have to
quell the attacks on Israel. Why won't they accept the offer? Was the offer really that
It appears, however, that they really don't want Israel to exist. The problem is that
there is no way out of this situation. Israel isn't going to go away peacefully. So they
have to attack, which gives Israel the right to defend it's turf.
So, I look at one basic idea and work from there -- does Israel have a right to exist as
an independent nation? If you believe that Israel should exist, then you come to one
conclusion. If you don't, then you come to another.
I believe (obviously :-) that Israel has a right to exist -- that the decisions made over
50 years ago by the governing bodies of that land area and the United Nations should stand
today. As a result, I believe that Israeli situation with the suicide bombers can be no
different than the Sept. 11th attacks. Whatever angered the Taliban and Al Quayda and
caused them to attack the US isn't any more "legit" an attack then whatever angered the
Palestinians and caused them to attack Israel. I don't believe that you can have it both
ways. The Palestinian attacks can't be justified without declaring that Israel shouldn't
exist -- that Israel is essentially occupied lands belonging to the Palestinians.
This isn't about human rights. It _would be_ about human rights if there was no Intifada,
but as long as there are Palestinian terrorists, it's not about human rights. Someone on
the Palestinian side has to make a decision about Israel -- not some half hearted
posturing or set of lies -- a real statement followed by real action. If the Palestinians
decide that Israel shouldn't exist, then they'll get the war they seem to want so badly.
If they decide that Israel should exist, then they'll stop the endless attacks and sit
down and negotiate. So far the Palestinians have never missed an opportunity to miss an
You know, when Shimon Peres agrees with Ariel Sharon's actions, it must be serious.
-- jeffrey kay
"first get your facts, then you can distort them at your leisure" -- mark twain
"golf is an endless series of tragedies obscured by the occasional miracle" -- sports
"if A equals success, then the formula is A equals X plus Y plus Z. X is work. Y is play.
Z is keep your mouth shut." -- albert einstein