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From carey@tstonramp.com Tue, 30 Apr 2002 23:25:22 -0700
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 23:25:22 -0700
From: carey carey@tstonramp.com
Subject: 10x the translation = no sense
so someone finally put up a multitranslator.
Much telephone fun can be had...
As an example:
'Wow that was a fun song!' translated 10 times over, turns to:
Defective the healthful rent, this song of the recovery was one!
YES. http://www.tashian.com/multibabel/
this is just much babel translation fun.
Original English Text:
Hey Rohit look!
Translated to French:
Hé regard de Rohit!
Translated back to English:
Hé glance of Rohit!
Translated to German:
Hé flüchtiger Blick von Rohit!
Translated back to English:
Hé volatile view of Rohit!
Translated to Italian:
Vista volatile di Hé di Rohit!
Translated back to English:
Sight flown them of Hé di Rohit!
Translated to Portuguese:
Vista voada lhes de Hé di Rohit!
Translated back to English:
Flied sight them of Hé di Rohit!
Translated to Spanish:
¡Flied los avista de Hé di Rohit!
Translated back to English:
Flied sights of Hé I gave them Rohit!
---------------------------------------
Indeed. Very interesting that 'Bit bitch' translates to 'female of
little' ... We can thank the german translation for that one, which
seems to automatically equate the perjorative with female.
Ah Well.
--
Best regards,
carey mailto:carey@tstonramp.com
From ejw@cse.ucsc.edu Tue, 30 Apr 2002 23:53:11 -0700
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 23:53:11 -0700
From: Jim Whitehead ejw@cse.ucsc.edu
Subject: mostrimi il piccolo (was: 10x the translation)
> 'Wow that was a fun song!' translated 10 times over, turns to:
> Defective the healthful rent, this song of the recovery was one!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Original English Text:
show me the bits
Translated to French:
montrez-moi le peu
Translated back to English:
show me the little
Translated to German:
zeigen Sie mir das wenig
Translated back to English:
show me the little
Translated to Italian:
mostrimi il piccolo
Translated back to English:
mostrimi the small
Translated to Portuguese:
mostrimi o pequeno
Translated back to English:
mostrimi the small one
Translated to Spanish:
mostrimi el pequeño
Translated back to English:
mostrimi the small one
From elias@cse.ucsc.edu Wed, 01 May 2002 00:59:55 -0700
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 00:59:55 -0700
From: Elias Sinderson elias@cse.ucsc.edu
Subject: 10x the translation = no sense
Interesting, very interesting. I played around with this for a bit and
noticed that some phrases make it through the translations unmunged,
like a fixed point in an iterative system of equations. This is, after
all what we're dealing with, isn't it? In the following the first line
is what I entered and the following are successive iterations of the
process on the last output produced. Some phrases settle to a fixed
point really quickly:
Only the good die young
Only good the new people of the table
Only good the new people of the table
Others take a little longer:
The ceremony will take place in the auditorium
The ceremony happens in the zone
The ceremony introduces in the zone
The gifts of the ceremony in the zone
Gifts of the ceremony in the zone
Gifts of the ceremony in the zone
While others seemingly diverge:
Darling, please close the window
The person or the thing of the favorite, closes themselves requests the
window
the person or the thing of the person of the favorite or the thing
request to the window surrounds
the person or the thing of the person of the person of the favorite or
the thing or the demand for the thing to the window surround
the person or the thing of the person of the person of the person of the
favorite or the thing or the thing or the demand for the thing to the
window surround
etc.
This makes me wonder if one can find stable periodic cycles of length
n>1... Is there a fractal structure lurking somewhere?
How much do you want for the bit bitch?
how much you when desider for feminine little?
how much he if more when feminine desider for small?
how much he therefore if woman of desider for small?
quant0 he therefore if woman more when desider for small?
quant0 he therefore if woman more if more when desider for small?
failure?
Would you like fries with that?
They appreciate the star of the inginocchiamento with this?
They consider the inginocchiamento of the star with this?
They consider the inginocchiamento of the star with this?
Elias
I spend too much time reading FoRK.
I too much passes the cramp of the measured value of the time.
Operations also the cramp of the measured value of the time.
Companies also the cramp of the measured value of the time.
Company also the cramp of the measured value of the time.
Company also the cramp of the measured value of the time.
carey wrote:
> so someone finally put up a multitranslator.
>
> Much telephone fun can be had...
>
> As an example:
>
> 'Wow that was a fun song!' translated 10 times over, turns to:
> Defective the healthful rent, this song of the recovery was one!
>
> YES. http://www.tashian.com/multibabel/
>
> this is just much babel translation fun.
>
> Original English Text:
> Hey Rohit look!
>
> Translated to French:
> Hé regard de Rohit!
>
>
>
> Translated back to English:
> Hé glance of Rohit!
>
>
>
> Translated to German:
> Hé flüchtiger Blick von Rohit!
>
>
>
> Translated back to English:
> Hé volatile view of Rohit!
>
>
>
> Translated to Italian:
> Vista volatile di Hé di Rohit!
>
>
>
> Translated back to English:
> Sight flown them of Hé di Rohit!
>
>
>
> Translated to Portuguese:
> Vista voada lhes de Hé di Rohit!
>
>
>
> Translated back to English:
> Flied sight them of Hé di Rohit!
>
>
>
> Translated to Spanish:
> ¡Flied los avista de Hé di Rohit!
>
>
>
> Translated back to English:
> Flied sights of Hé I gave them Rohit!
> ---------------------------------------
>
> Indeed. Very interesting that 'Bit bitch' translates to 'female of
> little' ... We can thank the german translation for that one, which
> seems to automatically equate the perjorative with female.
>
> Ah Well.
>
>
>
>
From grlygrl201@aol.com Wed, 01 May 2002 07:28:50 -0400
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 07:28:50 -0400
From: grlygrl201@aol.com grlygrl201@aol.com
Subject: 10x the translation = no sense
In a message dated Wed, 1 May 2002 2:27:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time, carey writes:
>so someone finally put up a multitranslator.
>
>Much telephone fun can be had...
>
>As an example:
>
>'Wow that was a fun song!' translated 10 times over, turns to:
>Defective the healthful rent, this song of the recovery was one!
>
>YES. http://www.tashian.com/multibabel/
>
similar to the parlor game "gossip"?
Original English Text:
similar to the parlor game "gossip"?
Translated to French:
semblable au "gossip" de jeu de salon;?
Translated back to English:
similar to the "gossip" of play of show;?
Translated to German:
ähnlich dem "gossip" des Spiels des Erscheinens;?
Translated back to English:
similarly "gossip" the play of the appearance;?
Translated to Italian:
similmente "gossip" il gioco dell'apparenza;?
Translated back to English:
similarly "gossip" the game of the appearance;?
Translated to Portuguese:
similarmente "gossip" o jogo da aparência;?
Translated back to English:
similarly "gossip" the game of the appearance;?
Translated to Spanish:
¿semejantemente "gossip" el juego del aspecto;?
Translated back to English:
similar "gossip" the game of the aspect;?
(hmmmmm, it's DISsimilar . . .)
From grlygrl201@aol.com Wed, 01 May 2002 07:33:08 -0400
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 07:33:08 -0400
From: grlygrl201@aol.com grlygrl201@aol.com
Subject: We Didn't Inhale
USA Today leads with oil executives' congressional testimony
yesterday in which they denied that they tried to manipulate the
market to drive gas prices up last summer, but did admit that
they kicked the idea around: "The options were presented...and
rejected," said one exec.
Eric Umansky, today's papers, Slate
compliments of,
geege
From ThosStew@aol.com Wed, 1 May 2002 09:01:26 EDT
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 09:01:26 EDT
From: ThosStew@aol.com ThosStew@aol.com
Subject: 10x the translation = no sense
In a message dated 5/1/2002 2:27:53 AM, carey@tstonramp.com writes:
>We can thank the german translation for that one, which
>
>seems to automatically equate the perjorative with female.
and that, babelized, produces "Ringraziare of the tin the German translation
for this, that one he we look like rifle automatic to register perjorative
with the woman." Which means something like "if a tin-pot German tried to
put a ring through Carey's nose, the bit bitch would shove an Uzi up his
whazoozi and say 'I have a pejoriative opinion of you--wanna make something
of it?'"
T
From garym@canada.com 01 May 2002 10:20:26 -0400
Date: 01 May 2002 10:20:26 -0400
From: Gary Lawrence Murphy garym@canada.com
Subject: Won't be runnin' from the spam when I'm gone
I love it online. Every time I think I've heard and seen just about
everything, a Loving Pup comes along. This is just too weird
... especially if they've found a way to make money online: Spam
them from beyond the grave!
http://timelessmail.com/
--
Gary Lawrence Murphy TeleDynamics Communications Inc
Business Innovations Through Open Source Systems: http://www.teledyn.com
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)
From jjddfftt@fm365.com Wed, 1 May 2002 22:30:01
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 22:30:01
From: ÄãµÄÒ»¸öÅóÓÑ jjddfftt@fm365.com
Subject: ÄãÏÖÔÚ¹ýµÃ»¹ºÃÂð£¿ÅóÓÑ
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----------------------------------------------------
INFORMATION
This message has been sent using a trial-run version
of the TSmtpRelayServer Delphi Component.
----------------------------------------------------
From newhgh@excite.com Wed, 1 May 2002 20:51:26 +0800
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 20:51:26 +0800
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Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 00:07:03
From: Bill Bellows billbellows@hotmail.com
Subject: 2000 Year old bread recipe actually helps you lose weight!
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From bill@wstoddard.com Wed, 1 May 2002 11:34:10 -0400
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 11:34:10 -0400
From: Bill Stoddard bill@wstoddard.com
Subject: 10x the translation = no sense
"Are you Sarah Conner?"
Original English Text:
I'll be back
Translated to French:
Je serai de retour
Translated back to English:
I will be back
Translated to German:
Ich bin zurück
Translated back to English:
I am back
Translated to Italian:
Sono indietro
Translated back to English:
They are behind
Translated to Portuguese:
Estão atrás
Translated back to English:
They are behind
Translated to Spanish:
Están detrás
Translated back to English:
They are behind
----- Original Message -----
From: "carey"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 2:25 AM
Subject: 10x the translation = no sense
> so someone finally put up a multitranslator.
>
> Much telephone fun can be had...
>
> As an example:
>
> 'Wow that was a fun song!' translated 10 times over, turns to:
> Defective the healthful rent, this song of the recovery was one!
>
> YES. http://www.tashian.com/multibabel/
>
> this is just much babel translation fun.
>
> Original English Text:
> Hey Rohit look!
>
> Translated to French:
> Hé regard de Rohit!
>
>
>
> Translated back to English:
> Hé glance of Rohit!
>
>
>
> Translated to German:
> Hé flüchtiger Blick von Rohit!
>
>
>
> Translated back to English:
> Hé volatile view of Rohit!
>
>
>
> Translated to Italian:
> Vista volatile di Hé di Rohit!
>
>
>
> Translated back to English:
> Sight flown them of Hé di Rohit!
>
>
>
> Translated to Portuguese:
> Vista voada lhes de Hé di Rohit!
>
>
>
> Translated back to English:
> Flied sight them of Hé di Rohit!
>
>
>
> Translated to Spanish:
> ¡Flied los avista de Hé di Rohit!
>
>
>
> Translated back to English:
> Flied sights of Hé I gave them Rohit!
> ---------------------------------------
>
> Indeed. Very interesting that 'Bit bitch' translates to 'female of
> little' ... We can thank the german translation for that one, which
> seems to automatically equate the perjorative with female.
>
> Ah Well.
>
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> carey mailto:carey@tstonramp.com
>
>
>
>
> http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork
>
From paul@prescod.net Wed, 01 May 2002 09:49:50 -0700
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 09:49:50 -0700
From: Paul Prescod paul@prescod.net
Subject: 10x the translation = no sense
carey wrote:
>
> so someone finally put up a multitranslator.
It might be interesting if you lined up ten professional translators and
had them do the same.
Paul Prescod
From crawdad@fnal.gov Wed, 01 May 2002 12:05:00 -0500
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 12:05:00 -0500
From: Matt Crawford crawdad@fnal.gov
Subject: 10x the translation = no sense
You could also try guessing at an inverse function. What familiar
phrase of yore led to this output?
the bat, papa, eight with the team of employees
> >so someone finally put up a multitranslator.
> >Much telephone fun can be had...
> >
> >As an example:
> >'Wow that was a fun song!' translated 10 times over, turns to:
> >Defective the healthful rent, this song of the recovery was one!
> >
> >YES. http://www.tashian.com/multibabel/
From DavidA@ActiveState.com Wed, 01 May 2002 10:26:40 -0700
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 10:26:40 -0700
From: David Ascher DavidA@ActiveState.com
Subject: Adam thinks I should fork this ...
carey wrote:
>Otherwise known as 'the extremes of body modification'
>
>http://www.bmezine.com/people/addsub/
>
>or alternatively: Just plain wrong.
>
I assume people noted the penultimate line on that page...
From RickK23919@onebox.com Wed, 1 May 2002 22:05:41 -0500
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 22:05:41 -0500
From: RickK23919@onebox.com RickK23919@onebox.com
Subject: Your account is overdue 3919
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********************************************************
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=====================================================================
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=====================================================================
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============
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=========================================================
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=======================================
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THAT'S 100,000 ORDERS TIMES $5 EACH = $500,000.00 (a half
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Your total income in this example is:
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4..... $50,000 +
5..... $500,000 ......... Grand Total = $555,550.00
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-----------------------------------------------------------
REMEMBER FRIEND, THIS IS ASSUMING ONLY 10 PEOPLE
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===================================================
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We strongly suggest you start with Method # 1 and add METHOD
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ORDER EACH REPORT BY ITS NUMBER & NAME ONLY.
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=============================================================
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=============================================================
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*************************************************
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Once you have received 100 or more orders for Report #2, YOU
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THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER: Every time your name is moved
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IF YOU WANT TO GENERATE MORE INCOME SEND ANOTHER BATCH OF
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____________________________________________________
FOLLOWING IS A NOTE FROM THE ORIGINATOR OF THIS PROGRAM:
Follow the program EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED. Do not change it
in any way. It works exceedingly well as it is now.
Remember to e-mail a copy of this exciting report after you
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So my friend, I have given you the ideas, information,
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==================== MORE TESTIMONIALS======================
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===============================================================
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================================================================
'' I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later
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================================================================
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Life is beautiful, Thanks to internet''.
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================================================================
ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON
YOUR ROAD TO GENERATING EXTRA INCOME!
================================================================
Disclaimer:
The sender or participants of this marketing program cannot
verify any monetary claims made in this document, nor do they
assume responsibility for same. As with any business you have
the risk of loss. No "guarantee" can be made as to the amount
of money you will make, or the benefits you may receive with
this program. This is NOT a Chain Letter. We advertise the
sale of information and a legal business of reselling that
information. If you have any doubts, please consult your
attorney.
==========================================================
BEST OF LUCK IN YOUR NEW BUSINESS VENTURE!!
3919
From jeff@k2.com Thu, 2 May 2002 00:55:54 -0400
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 00:55:54 -0400
From: Jeffrey Kay jeff@k2.com
Subject: Adam thinks I should fork this ...
Well, so much for getting any sleep tonight. Thanks for sharing ...
-- jeffrey kay
weblog
"first get your facts, then you can distort them at your leisure" -- mark twain
"golf is an endless series of tragedies obscured by the occasional miracle" -- sports
illustrated
"if A equals success, then the formula is A equals X plus Y plus Z. X is work. Y is play.
Z is keep your mouth shut." -- albert einstein
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of David
> Ascher
> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 1:27 PM
> To: carey
> Cc: fork@xent.com
> Subject: Re: Adam thinks I should fork this ...
>
>
> carey wrote:
>
> >Otherwise known as 'the extremes of body modification'
> >
> >http://www.bmezine.com/people/addsub/
> >
> >or alternatively: Just plain wrong.
> >
> I assume people noted the penultimate line on that page...
>
>
>
>
>
> http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork
>
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From Kenneth.Meltsner@ca.com Thu, 2 May 2002 11:44:05 -0400
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 11:44:05 -0400
From: Meltsner, Kenneth Kenneth.Meltsner@ca.com
Subject: Adam thinks I should fork this ...
Body modification is going mainstream, or at least as mainstream as motorcycle and tatoo mags -- I just saw a new glossy magazine at Barnes and Noble covering the BM scene. I didn't want to look inside to see the publisher, but it looked like it was produced by one of the cycle/tatoo magazine publishers. Since I now see tatoos on random teenage girls and boys with too much money and too little sense, this is probably a sign of impending acceptance for the milder forms of modification/mutilations.
Lovely young woman on the cover with lots of sharp, spiky things sticking out of her. I don't believe that the cover story on implants was concerned with the usual female bust enlargement sort.
Ken
From tomwhore@slack.net Thu, 2 May 2002 11:48:45 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 11:48:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tom tomwhore@slack.net
Subject: Adam thinks I should fork this ...
On Thu, 2 May 2002, Meltsner, Kenneth wrote:
--]Body modification is going mainstream
Going?
Its jumped the shark about 2 years ago.
-tom
From harley@argote.ch Thu, 2 May 2002 17:49:53 +0200 (CEST)
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 17:49:53 +0200 (CEST)
From: Robert Harley harley@argote.ch
Subject: Le Pen...
Yesterday there were protest marches "for" and "against" the Front
National. The FN always holds a march on the 1st of May and yesterday
were promising a show of strength with 60000 to 100000 people, bussing
them in from all over France for a mega-march in Paris. However
according to the police, there between 8000 and 10000 of them.
Meanwhile anti-FN voices called for about 400 marches all over France,
eclipsing the traditional workers parades. Collected from some
sources, using the low figures given by the cops rather than the
inflated ones given by the organisers...
400000 Paris
50000 Lyon
50000 Grenoble
45000 Toulouse
38000 Bordeaux
35000 Rennes
30000 Marseille
30000 Lille
25000 Nancy
20000 Nantes
15000 Paris
15000 Strasbourg
14000 Dijon
14000 Rouen
14000 Saint-Nazaire
13000 Caen
11000 Brest
10000 Chambéry
10000 Tours
...
Total: approximately 1.2 or 1.3 million.
- Rob
From tomwhore@slack.net Thu, 2 May 2002 11:58:10 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 11:58:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tom tomwhore@slack.net
Subject: Le Pen...
On Thu, 2 May 2002, Robert Harley wrote:
--]Total: approximately 1.2 or 1.3 million.
The Million Frog March?
France hasnt seen this much enthusiasn since the nazis moved into town and
the population cracnked up productivity.
-tom
From joe@barrera.org Thu, 02 May 2002 09:04:31 -0700
Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 09:04:31 -0700
From: Joseph S. Barrera III joe@barrera.org
Subject: Adam thinks I should fork this ...
Tom wrote:
> On Thu, 2 May 2002, Meltsner, Kenneth wrote:
>
> --]Body modification is going mainstream
>
> Going?
Tom,
You may have to accept that you are not a good judge of what is
mainstream :-)
- Joe (I'm probably not either)
--
"For a toxic thing you sure smell pretty
Summer, salt and wine
For a quiet boy you sure talk dirty
A velvet bed of nails"
From tomwhore@slack.net Thu, 2 May 2002 12:06:34 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 12:06:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tom tomwhore@slack.net
Subject: Adam thinks I should fork this ...
On Thu, 2 May 2002, Joseph S. Barrera III wrote:
--]You may have to accept that you are not a good judge of what is
--]mainstream :-)
Oh come on, I got a 7 year old and tons of inlaws now. I have a clear view
on the mainstream like I have never thought I would. Belive me, mainstream
I know.
Pirecing has jumped the shark. Kids are getting them along with thier
NSynch cds. Parents consider tongue, lip and eyebrow piercing as trend de
jour. Tatoos are so freaking over the shark fin its been years since it
can raise anything more than a mild "wow". Piercing and Tats are as out
there as BKlounges and Walmart.
From eugen@leitl.org Thu, 2 May 2002 19:10:43 +0200 (CEST)
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 19:10:43 +0200 (CEST)
From: Eugen Leitl eugen@leitl.org
Subject: [wta-talk] Economic futures: Stock market no panacea
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 12:40:00 -0400
From: "Hughes, James"
Reply-To: wta-talk@yahoogroups.com
To: "Wta-Talk (E-mail)"
Subject: [wta-talk] Economic futures: Stock market no panacea
New report out. Full report can be downloaded
at http://epinet.org without charge. Also look for the one
we had a week ago on income inequality. -- mbs
Middle Americans' Retirement Wealth Fell as Stock Market Soared, New Study
Reveals Boom a Retirement Bust for All but the Richest; Next Retirees More
Likely than Predecessors to Live in Poverty
A groundbreaking new study holds troubling news for millions of Americans
now nearing retirement age. Retirement Insecurity: The Income Shortfalls
Awaiting the Soon-to-Retire shows that despite the recent unprecedented
stock market boom and rapid proliferation of 401(k) retirement plans,
typical Americans now facing retirement will have to tighten their belts
harder than previous retirees. More than 40% of households headed by someone
between the ages of 47 and 64 will not be able to replace even half of their
pre-retirement income once they stop working. Nearly 20% will have
retirement income below the poverty line.
Retirement Insecurity, by New York University economist and wealth expert
Edward N. Wolff and published today by the Economic Policy Institute, uses
the most recent data to examine changes in Americans' retirement wealth
during the 1980s and '90s and finds that more retired Americans will have
less to live on.
"In terms of retirement investment, what should have been the best of times
turns into something closer to the worst of times when you look closely at
what really happened to retirement wealth," explained Wolff. "In 1998, every
group of near-retirees except those at the very top lost ground compared
with their counterparts in 1983. The contraction of traditional defined
benefit pension plans and their replacement by defined contribution plans
appears to have helped rich, older Americans but hurt a large group of
lower-income Americans."
Senator Jon Corzine, who took part in the news conference releasing the
study, said, "As this study demonstrates, millions of Americans are
ill-prepared for retirement. The study shows that America's seniors cannot
afford the deep cuts in guaranteed Social Security benefits that President
Bush's Social Security commission has proposed."
"By focusing only on Social Security, we've been trying to fix the part of
the retirement system that's not broken," said EPI President Jeff Faux. "The
way we now go about providing for retirement just isn't working for middle-
and low-income Americans. It's time to stop talking about shifting Social
Security money to private accounts and start talking about how we can make
sure that working Americans will have adequate pensions that will enable
them to live decently in retirement."
The study's specific findings include:
Living on less than half: Between 1989 and 1998, the share of households
whose projected retirement income is less than half of their pre-retirement
income rose sharply from a 29.9% share to 42.5%.
Worse news for African Americans and Hispanics: Among these households, the
percentage that will have to live on less than half of their pre-retirement
income shot up even higher, to 52.7% in 1998.
The shrinking middle: For households at the median, retirement wealth
declined by 11% between 1983 and 1998.
Growing likelihood of poverty: The share of households facing the prospect
of retirement income below the poverty line grew from 17.2% in 1989 to 18.5%
in 1998.
Richest are the only winners: Only the very richest pre-retirees - those
with net worth of $1 million and above - saw this wealth increasing between
1983 and 1998. All other wealth classes, including those with net worth
between $500,000 and $999,999 are now in a weaker position heading toward
retirement than their predecessors were in 1983.
Losing ground: For all groups of pre-retirees with combined retirement
wealth of $999,999 or less, that wealth has shrunk between 11% and 32% since
1983.
Pension coverage stagnant: The share of near-retirement households with any
pension coverage - whether traditional pension plans or defined contribution
plans like 401(k)s - remained almost unchanged from 1983 to 1998, growing
just 3.5 points to 73.7% coverage in 1998.
Social Security coverage expanded: The single bright spot for the
one-quarter of Americans without private pension coverage of any kind is
that Social Security coverage became virtually universal, rising from 82.4%
in 1983 to 98.4% in 1998.
The downward trend in retirement adequacy for Americans in the middle and
below has gone unnoticed until now because of a tendency to look at average
rather than median retirement wealth. While the median has been dropping,
the average has been rising - fueled by a growing gap between the rich and
the middle. Thus, the rising average provides a false picture that fails to
reflect the growing unequal distribution of retirement wealth.
"The report reminds us that what is a serious problem for most Americans is
a potential crisis for African Americans. Private pension wealth for African
American households stands at 45 percent of whites, while African American
social security wealth stands at 59 percent of whites, for people 47 years
and older. The high value of social security wealth compared to the income
of African Americans, which is 51 percent of white income for people 47
years and older, confirms the progressive job that social security does,
compared to the disparity in private pensions. So, to help African Americans
close the wealth gap, we must work on disparities in private pensions," said
William Spriggs, an economist who is the Director of the National Urban
League Institute for Opportunity and Equality.
"The huge growth in wealth for the very wealthy has, until this study,
masked what has really been happening to retirement nest eggs for most
Americans," said Christian Weller, an EPI economist who studies retirement
and Social Security. "We need to take a fresh look at what we are doing to
strengthen and expand pension coverage or millions of Americans will pay the
price for our neglect."
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From johnhall@evergo.net Thu, 2 May 2002 10:49:07 -0700
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 10:49:07 -0700
From: John Hall johnhall@evergo.net
Subject: [wta-talk] Economic futures: Stock market no panacea
Well, I tend to trust EPI less than I can throw them. But I'll mention
something tangential, which I only learned about recently. Namely, a
reason why defined benefit plans have plummeted and the companies have
gone to defined contribution.
In the heyday of defined benefit plans, companies over-funded their
plans if they could possibly do so. The better the plan was run the
more likely it was to be over-funded. You didn't have to pay taxes on
those excess contributions, and if they company *really* got in trouble
you could cancel the plan, 'freeze' everyone at their current level of
benefits, and take the excess back.
Significantly, in 'group' plans like some union based plans the
companies contributions were irrevocable. Companies did not over-fund
those plans.
Now, it happens that some companies did get in trouble, especially in
the late 70s and early 80s. Some of those plans were canceled.
Congress decided to add a very heavy excess tax on companies canceling
their plans and withdrawing the excess contributions. This was to
protect workers, of course. It was to discourage companies from
canceling their plans by removing the 'reward' for doing so.
But what they basically did is turn all contributions into irrevocable
contributions and undermine any reason for a company to have a plan in
the first place.
So what do you do as a Board Member with a nice over-funded plan when
they pass this law? First, you stop funding the plan entirely until
your 'over-funded' amount drops to zero. Then you convert it to a
defined contribution plan, which really screws over people about half
through their careers.
I have to admit I probably wouldn't have foreseen that consequence if
I'd been asked about the change by Congress. Unintended consequences
can be difficult to spot, even if you are looking for them.
Back to EPI's study -- they mention the decline in defined pensions. I
wonder how much of what they are seeing is the result of the decline in
defined pensions alone?
I might be able to find a web based reference if someone really wanted
it.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of
Eugen
> Leitl
>
> Retirement Insecurity, by New York University economist and wealth
expert
> Edward N. Wolff and published today by the Economic Policy Institute,
uses
> the most recent data to examine changes in Americans' retirement
wealth
> during the 1980s and '90s and finds that more retired Americans will
have
> less to live on.
From Kenneth.Meltsner@ca.com Thu, 2 May 2002 13:52:10 -0400
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 13:52:10 -0400
From: Meltsner, Kenneth Kenneth.Meltsner@ca.com
Subject: Jumping the shark has jumped the shark...
"Jumping the shark" was originally a media critic term. It referred to an episode of Happy Days in which Fonzie was supposed to jump his motorcycle over a shark tank, and the show ended up with an ending that did not include Fonzie chewed up and eventually digested. The original meme was that this was the pivotal moment when the show lost all credibility, that it became clear that the show's producers had given up trying to work within the fictional universe that they had created.
Similar moments for other shows have been defined -- e.g. the infamous shower scene in Dallas -- and the term could also be used for other media. For me, "Star Wars Episode I" definitely jumped the shark, while other may feel that the introduction of the Ewoks in RotJ was the beginning of the end for that saga. Other email lists have drifted into this morass, of course.
I'm not sure when the phrase came to mean something like "a significant transition," or whether the new meaning is used outside of FoRK.
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom [mailto:tomwhore@slack.net]
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 11:07 AM
To: Joseph S. Barrera III
Cc: fork@xent.com
Subject: Re: Adam thinks I should fork this ...
...
Pirecing has jumped the shark.
...
From gojomo@usa.net Thu, 2 May 2002 13:03:14 -0500
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 13:03:14 -0500
From: Gordon Mohr gojomo@usa.net
Subject: Le Pen...
I suspect these protests might actually boost Le Pen's vote
total, above what he would have received had the protesters
stayed home and simply voted against him.
Why?
These people are not protesting a systemic failure, an abuse
of power, electoral corruption, or even an injustice.
They're just protesting a man, his party, and their ideas.
The protesters don't have a specific grievance that needs
correcting, against anyone except their fellow voters. So
they're simply trying to convince -- and perhaps subtextually
intimidate/shame -- people into opposing Le Pen. The
protesters' message is not: "Reform! Reform! Reform!"
Rather, it is: "Conform! Conform! Conform!"
This atmosphere may create the desired effect in public --
with even Le Pen sympathizers publically distancing themselves
from him, to avoid the stares and yells -- but when it comes
time to cast a secret ballot, the pent-up resentment at being
unable to express certain views could lead to more Le Pen votes,
e.g.: voters thinking, "I don't completely agree with him, and
I even marching in the anti-LePen rally because last week because
everyone was doing it, but *someone* has to say these things,
and this is my only chance to express my discontent."
- Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Harley"
To:
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: Le Pen...
> Yesterday there were protest marches "for" and "against" the Front
> National. The FN always holds a march on the 1st of May and yesterday
> were promising a show of strength with 60000 to 100000 people, bussing
> them in from all over France for a mega-march in Paris. However
> according to the police, there between 8000 and 10000 of them.
> Meanwhile anti-FN voices called for about 400 marches all over France,
> eclipsing the traditional workers parades. Collected from some
> sources, using the low figures given by the cops rather than the
> inflated ones given by the organisers...
>
> 400000 Paris
> 50000 Lyon
> 50000 Grenoble
> 45000 Toulouse
> 38000 Bordeaux
> 35000 Rennes
> 30000 Marseille
> 30000 Lille
> 25000 Nancy
> 20000 Nantes
> 15000 Paris
> 15000 Strasbourg
> 14000 Dijon
> 14000 Rouen
> 14000 Saint-Nazaire
> 13000 Caen
> 11000 Brest
> 10000 Chambéry
> 10000 Tours
> ...
>
> Total: approximately 1.2 or 1.3 million.
>
> - Rob
>
>
> http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork
From joe@barrera.org Thu, 02 May 2002 11:10:49 -0700
Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 11:10:49 -0700
From: Joseph S. Barrera III joe@barrera.org
Subject: Jumping the shark has jumped the shark...
Meltsner, Kenneth wrote:
> other may feel that the introduction of the Ewoks
> in RotJ was the beginning of the end for that saga.
I vote for the Ewok theory.
Kill the little fuckers! Kill 'em all!
- Joe
"Ladies and Gentlemen of this supposed jury...
"I have one final thing I want you to consider. Ladies and Gentlemen,
this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookie from the planet Kashyyyk, but
Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it, that does not
make sense. Why would a wookie, an eight foot tall wookie, want to live
on Endor with a bunch of two foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense!
But more importantly you have to ask yourself, what does this have to
do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and Gentlemen it has nothing to do
with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me, I'm a lawyer,
defending a major Union society, and I'm talking about Chewbacca. Does
that make sense? Ladies and Gentlemen, I am not making any sense. None
of this makes sense. And so you have to remember when you're in that
jury room deliberating and conjugating the emancipation proclamation,
does it make sense? No! Ladies and Gentlemen of this supposed jury, it
does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor you must acquit."
"The defense rests."
--
"For a toxic thing you sure smell pretty
Summer, salt and wine
For a quiet boy you sure talk dirty
A velvet bed of nails"
From harley@argote.ch Thu, 2 May 2002 20:09:11 +0200 (CEST)
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 20:09:11 +0200 (CEST)
From: Robert Harley harley@argote.ch
Subject: Le Pen...
Mr. Thomas Whore, Esq. wrote:
>The Million Frog March?
>France hasnt seen this much enthusiasn since the nazis moved into town and
>the population cracnked up productivity.
Wrong. France sees large crowds marching, even relative to the 400000
in Paris yesterday, every few years:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* 26 August 1944:
Between 1 and 2 million on the Champs-Élysees, the day after Paris was
freed.
* 28 May 1958
Between 200 K and 300 K from Nation to République, against De Gaulle.
* 13 February 1962
Hundreds of thousands from Nation to République, against the OAS (some
guys who wanted Algeria to remain a colony).
* 13 May 1968:
Close to 1 millon from Nation to Republique.
* 30 May 1968:
About 800 K on the Champs-Elysées supporting De Gaulle.
* 4 March 1972:
Many (conflicting reports) in support of a maoist worker killed by
Renault security men.
* 7 Octobre 1980:
About 200 K from Nation to République after an attack on a synagogue.
* 24 June 1984:
About 850 K in Paris against an educational reform.
* 4 December 1986:
About 200 K against a university reform.
* 14 May 1990:
About 200 K from République to Bastille after a Jewish cemetery was
violated.
* 16 January 1994:
About 260 K against a reform of school funding.
* 12 July 1998:
More than a million on the Champs-Elysées to celebrate France's
victory in the World Cup.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let me tie this in with the "Ugly Europeans" article...
>They may not be terrorists and murderers, but their separatist agenda
>is familiar: a belief that Christians and Muslims cannot commingle;
>that the infidel invaders must be expelled to ensure their countries'
>self-preservation; and a backward-looking celebration of an empire
>long, long gone.
Actually no one, even the ugly far-right groups, looks back to the
empires, apart from a couple of ancient Britons. World War II was
sixty-odd years ago. Sixty-odd years ago Britain and France had large
empires. Why do you (and others) feel the need to dredge up remarks
about collaboration under the Vichy régime or similar at every
possible opportunity when people mention France? Don't you realise
that such refrains are just as old and tired as those of some
neanderthals pining for the empire?
Also:
>Ugly Europeans are adamantly opposed to multicultural, multiethnic
>societies [...] They're fiercely opposed to the European Union, which
>they see as leveling the distinctions among the Continent's distinct
>nations. And most assail America for its globalizing culture and its
>multiethnic society.
Yes, they assail America for its globalizing culture. They, and
others, are opposed to, or unconfortable with, the widespread
anglicization of culture, and tend to pick out the US as a
fountainhead of anglo culture.
However nobody assails America for its multicultural, multiethnic
society. Europe has far more cultural diversity than the US. Talk
about getting a sense of proportion. In the US you can drive a
thousand kilometres and you find the same culture, the same language,
the same media spouting the same news, the same songs on the radio,
the same shops selling the same goods with the same brands... Even
between East and West coasts, the sameness is depressing. Heck in all
of North America, you have to go the Quebec to find something a little
different, or Mexico for a real change of scenery. Whereas Europe has
at least a dozen very different native cultures, plus many "imported"
ones.
Europe is highly multiethnic, whether the "ugly" groups like it or
not. In my opinion ethnic groups are better integrated here than in
the US. We don't have ghettos or slums with 50% hispanics or
whatever. They just dont exist. Blacks in Europe have never had
anything like the trouble they have had in the US. Integration
problems here are far less trouble than over there, but they get a
much more vociferous treatment from politicians, ugly or otherwise.
Likewise, security and insecurity are a big issue, but to get a sense
of proportion... there are something like 25000 homicides in the US
each year, versus a few hundred in France or the UK. People worry a
lot and shout loudly at issues that are relatively minor compared to
elsewhere.
To pick a topical news item, Tony Blair has apparently decided to stop
child benefits to parents of out-of-control youths and stop housing
benefits to anti-social tenants. That has caused controversy in the UK.
In the US, it probably wouldn't raise an eyebrow. In the France, no
politician in his right mind would dream of such a scheme, apart from
the extreme right-wing "ugly" ones, since among those most affected
would be ethnic minorities.
Rob.
.-. .-.
/ \ .-. .-. / \
/ \ / \ .-. _ .-. / \ / \
/ \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \
/ \ / \ / `-' `-' \ / \ / \
\ / `-' `-' \ /
`-' `-'
From grlygrl201@aol.com Thu, 2 May 2002 11:11:24 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Thu, 2 M | | |
