As It Will Be

[Owen Byrne]

Apologies for trying to state my honest opinions and give up the argument
with an attempt at self-deprecating humour. I mentioned Dave Winer
as an American with an alternate opinion, not as a font of wisdom.You
know - diversity.
"Go read up on the Industrial Revolution" - holy fuck!
Owen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Kearney"

> > It just seems to me that the church, and US corporations, and the
> > government, and military contractors are all united more than they ever
have
> been. Everyone is in
> > everybody's else's pockets, and they're all determined to make sure
democracy
> doesn't
> > stand in the way of profits, and God, and the Republican Party.
>
> And you think it's just awful!  In this day and age!  That this could be
> happening, right?
>
> Go read up on the Industrial Revolution.  Search for people like Carnegie,
> Vanderbilt.  Then look up things like the Palmer raids.  Makes folks like
> Ashcroft look like sissies. We've been here before and somehow we
survived.
> Each time we enact legislation that stamps out the bits of foolishness
that harm
> ourselves.  As opposed to trying to legislate away everything before it
ever
> happens.
>
> The saying "those who fail to study history are doomed to repeat it" comes
to
> mind here...  Perhaps a subtle variation would be "those who fail to study
those
> who whinged about history and doomed to whinge just the same..."
>
> >The war on drugs and the DMCA are both examples of  policies designed to
> > restrict Americans, but which have spread beyond their borders
> > (<extreme> been forced down our throats</extreme>).
>
> Oh give me a break.  Let's just wander all over the map here why don't we?
> Can't win one argument so let's start another?  As much fun as it is to
get
> stoned I can't say I disagree with much of what the "War on Drugs" has
done.
> The DMCA exists because the vast majority of geeks keep whining amongst
> themselves instead of taking action.  As ye sow, so shall ye reap.  But
you're
> not even a US citizen, the DMCA doesn't apply to you.  Make sure you get
out and
> *actively* campaign against that sort of foolishness cropping up in your
own
> country.   You tell me what's "been forced down your throats" besides
becoming a
> willing victim of sensationalism.
>
> > And I am appalled at Afghanistan.
>
> Me too, those poor women getting killed in the stadiums really sucked big
time.
> Not to mention depriving them of any sorts of rights, voting or freedom of
> travel.  The wanton destruction of ancient art (albeit religious) and
culture
> was utterly appalling.  All in the name of religion too!  Yeah,
theocracies
> really suck don't they?  Oh, but you're assailing the US activities,
right?
> Yeah, that's right, let's let 'em go back to being a 14th century country
that
> harbored 21st century terrorists.  Ones that actively espouse the
destruction of
> all forms of Western culture.  Yep, that'd be a a heck of an improvement.
>
> Now, could we go about routing these bastards in a "kindler, gentler
fashion"?
> How about we harken back to WWII and how all the folks thought it was so
evil to
> have used the bomb on the Japanese?  Oh, sorry, can't do that, all those
folks
> were grateful to have an end to the conflict, one which they didn't start.
The
> fact 50k-odd people had to get incinerated in the process was apparently a
price
> they were willing to pay.  Strange but even with orders of magnitude
inflation
> of casualties it's still a pretty mild exercise.
>
> > It doesn't really take a conspiracy to make bad things happen. As in
WWI,
> > sometimes incompetents can do a pretty good job of starting a war.
>
> Yeah, especially when they're whipped into a frenzy with half-truths,
media
> fantasies and outright lies.
>
> > My nationalism is largely in response to some of the postings in this
group.
> > I guess "reaction" is a better word than response. One night I switched
modes
> from
> > FoRK-rant to reading Dave Winer saying "Sharon must go." Shut me right
up.
>
> Well, that's the turd in the punch bowl.  Weblogger-based literacy.. that
> explains just sooo much.
>
> >  I do notice a pretty steady drumbeat of anti-American nationalism on
> > the news lately too.  Its mostly at the level of whining from
politicians,
> > and probably a jump in defense spending.
>
> It's no better or worse now that plenty of other times in the past.  Go to
the
> library and read pages from the non-US papers in the 1970's.  Just as full
of
> the same tripe you see today.  Rewind back to 1930 and you'll see it
again,
> 1880, again, repeat until some history rubs off.
>
> > Not that we think we can be a threat to the alpha male, we just want him
to
> notice us once in a while
>
> Ah, now we get to it, testosterone poisoning, or lack thereof...  Read up
on the
> Monroe doctrine sometime.  We have laws here about not being the so-called
alpha
> male in geopolitics.  So instead of invading military we invade
economically?
> Hmmm, that's a lot less worse than how Europe tried to do it.
>  .
> > Maybe we have dreams of being at the front of the pack somewhere down
the
> line. Past military glory and war dead and all that.
> > Then there's the hockey - watch out for drunken Habs fans on the rampage
at
> the border crossings.
>
> And slowly the strength of the argument just dribbles away....
>
>
>
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>