Re[2]: FoRK digest, Vol 1 #1585 - 10 msgs
Sun, 19 Jan 2003 16:04:07 -0500

Hey, I like the US, just fine.  But I do see -some- (I really do mean
some) of Owen's point.

The sanctions and embargos first imposed against Iraq (allowing for
only some humanitarian aid and medical supplies of a very limited
number) could be argued to do damage after the first months of the
war.  Embargos hurt; They're meant to, thats the entire point.
This second modification wasn't altered for a number of years,
primarily due to Hussein's own actions (not allowing inspectors into
the country in 1991).  I personally see oil-for-food as a big fat 'bend over and take it' to the weaker
country, but it was better than the situation before.

Granted, what Sadaam did with the food/medical supplies is an error he
alone made.   I don't know about Owen, but I certainly can't hold the
US accountable for what a sovereign does to his own people.  What I
can be repulsed by is the idea of sanctions in and of themselves.
They're a bad, and (according to at least one study) inneffective way
to make a country change its bad ways.  I especially liked this quote:

""I mean, I think the issue is we cannot have the United Nations, the
guardian of well-being of the people of this world, sustaining a
regime of embargo or sanctions on a people that impacts only on the
people, not on the decision makers, not on the government, not on the
people who made the decision to go into Kuwait," he said in an
interview with CNN. "It more than impacts, it kills the people."

More facts and figures and bits are on that website.  And its
pleasantly devoid of aggrandized figures that haven't been backed up.


BK> It seems Owen's got his "let's all hate America" hat on again.  It seems to be
BK> cinched a bit too tight for rational thinking however.

BK> Do the deaths of children in Iraq (numbers of which are extremely debatable)
BK> fall to blame on their dictatorship government?  Or that just too rational a way
BK> to look at it?  After all, when seeing their population dying what good is a
BK> government doing by prolonging their suffering?  Soverign pride?  Tough to feel
BK> proud from the grave. Yeah, shut up and let your children die while your
BK> soveriegn builds new palaces.  Don't they have cake?

BK> And of course!  The cuban crisis was the US's fault!  The Soviet efforts to
BK> install nuclear missiles in Cuba had nothing to do with escalating the risks of
BK> anihillation, of course.  The US presense, invited, in Europe contrasts quite
BK> unevenly with the Soviet use of an island in the Caribbean.  But hey, why mix
BK> facts with rhetoric?

BK> The Irish resistance to British colonialism is quite a bit different than most
BK> conflicts of today.  Drawing parallels is weak at best.

BK> But you go Owen, all that hatred of the US must be the only thing that keeps you
BK> posting.

BK> -Bill Kearney

Best regards,