Re[4]: A Bunch of Stuff...
Tue, 21 Jan 2003 21:08:04 -0500

SAJ> Regarding anti-americanism, this question is asked
SAJ> in the context of anti-war protesters.  In this
SAJ> regard, there is a certain
SAJ> see-no-evil/no-enemies-to-the-left quality to the
SAJ> people on this list who are ignorant about those
SAJ> who organized the protests in DC but are so
SAJ> strident in defending them from charges of
SAJ> anti-americanism.

SAJ> ANSWER are the people who organized the protests.

So question for you.  Do you know the history of every corporation
that you purchase from?

For instance, do you/have you ever bought a Ford Product?
"The U.S. lawsuit against Ford was dismissed. But Ford acknowledged
that its German subsidiary, Ford-Werke AG, used Buchenwald
concentration camp labor to build trucks and light armored vehicles in

Do you/have you ever used Sun, Microsoft or Nortel systems on your
"Foreign companies, including Websense and Sun Microsystems, Cisco
Systems, Nortel Networks, Microsoft,(27) have reportedly provided
important technology which helps the Chinese authorities censor the
Internet. Nortel Networks(28) along with some other international
firms are reported to be providing China with the technology which
will help it shift from filtering content at the international gateway
level to filtering content of individual computers, in homes, Internet
cafes, universities and businesses."

Have you ever bought a diamond?

"GC: Absolutely. It wasn't that they supported the rebels, or that
they wanted the rebels to be able to buy more weapons and ammunition.
The whole reason for buying the diamonds wherever they were found
around the world was simply a mechanism to control the price. If
diamonds were to find their way out of the DeBeers cartel, then prices
would plummet."

Ad Nauseum. Rinse. Recycle. Repeat.


SAJ> It is hard to escape the feeling that they are
SAJ> either anti-american or pro-death.

SAJ> The face and much of the body of the anti-war
SAJ> movement are anti-american communists and their
SAJ> sympathizers.  If that were not the case, there
SAJ> would be others organizing the protests and ANSWER
SAJ> would be disavowed.

Nah.  ANSWER is organized.  I'm sure its helped that they've allegedly
had past connections getting other things amoving and a shaking.  That
means nothing to the hearts and minds of most of the protestors, who
(as it was mentioned before) probably didn't have the slightest clue
that ANSWER was the organizer of the protest (especially in NH, where
it was a small crowd, and nary an ANSWER sign in sight), and if they
did, they'd likely not know who ANSWER was.  Sorta like me.

Ignorance alone does != support.   If that were the case, the
corporate arguments and folks 'agreement' would also hold firm.  I
doubt you'd agree with my corporate statement.  Likely, you'll call it
downright 'anti-american' or find some other silly method of excusing
the history.   Point being, unless you're going to keep abreast of
EVERY POSSIBLE action or behavior of a given organization, you're a

I'm not excusing ANSWER's actions.  I don't particularly care (as I
think I said earlier).  I think a lot of folks, if enlightened, may
not chose to do business with ANSWER and their affiliates again, but
just because they participated, uninformed, does not automatically
mean they are anti-american communist pigs.  This is merely guilt by
association.  Unless you're willing to admit your guilt for every
historical wrong you're remotely affliated with, I kindly suggest you
get a clue and move on.

SAJ> Regarding the "everybody does it" defense.
SAJ> It is hard to tell what this even means.  There
SAJ> are no major leaders on the right endorsing
SAJ> genocide, slavery, or even Jim Crow.  Pat
SAJ> Buchanan, David Duke, and now Trent Lott are
SAJ> excluded from leadership positions.

So these three criterion not being fulfilled mean the right is

SAJ> So to take this back to the original question:

SAJ> The reason why many who criticize America are
SAJ> labelled anti-American is because frequently they
SAJ> are.

And the reason why many who criticize the criticizers are labeled
redbaiters/right-wingnuts/crazy cooky people/dorks/Rush Limbaugh is
because frequently they are.

Back Atcha baby.