Fwd: [BATN] Bay Area gas at record high; experts cite ethanol

Owen Byrne owen@permafrost.net
Sat, 15 Mar 2003 01:17:40 -0400


Adam L. Beberg wrote:

>On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 owen@permafrost.net wrote:
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>>Not in this country - nor I suspect anywhere away from the epicenter. I
>>got one increase close to that - right at the height of dot-com mania.
>>But from the mid-eighties to the mid-nineties, outside the US,
>>programming is a poor paying job.
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>Yea, only the CA job one was really outside a national avg. All engineering
>and programming is rapidly headed for a global average tho.
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>>And after the bubble its back to being
>>a poor paying job.  Which of course, another thing you discover, is that
>>it is like most low paying jobs, predominantly female - I have worked in
>>2 places where I was the token male.
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>Females? WHERE?!? In all seriousness I have never worked with a female on
>any of my day jobs. Never. Sure a secretary or whatever the PC term for that
>is now, but you can't really count those.
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Again - step away from the epicenter, down in status and suddenly 
they're everywhere - insurance companies and
banks especially are full of women working with 4GLs and screen painters 
and stuff. maybe its not programming
to me and you - but its still IT work. And when it comes time for 
promotion - well they have communication skills,
while you were hired to be the "nerd."

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>>Personally I think that thats not necessarily a bad thing, if the same
>>transparency also gets applied to investments - with competition for the
>>good ones driving the price up until they're no longer "good", and
>>hopefully the additional funds fuel innovation which reduces prices
>>enough to make up for my lower income. Unfortunately politicians seem to
>>serve as a barrier to entry to investors - you really need to own one to
>>make a sure profit.
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>There are enough unemployed people in China to replace every worker in the
>US and Canada, with people to spare. And you're fooling yourself if you
>think it's not happening.
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Except that there is an advantage to being local - just not enough to 
justify "professional" salaries. The vast
majority of managers (again outside the software industry) out there 
think of programmers as glorified typists -
and I suspect salaries will end up in the same range. Not all clerical 
jobs are overseas - there are lots of people
who make a meager living at it in North America.

>Is anyone headed for anywhere near the delta-income that the US is headed
>for? I don't think so. Jobs are leaving and heading for places with 25% of
>the wage. You can't live on that in the US, you cant even get basic food and
>shelter for that. Without some serious deflation in food and housing, and
>soon, things are going to be problematic.
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Thats why they call it a "bubble"

Owen