SPORK: About 'peace' people being supporters of SH.

stuart stuart <stuart@realhappy.net>
Sun, 23 Mar 2003 15:16:32 -0500

On Sunday, March 23, 2003, johnhall came up with this...
>> > And the benefit of deterrence after smashing Saddam?  Priceless.
>> i see. so a second goal is to say to all the region, "look out: you
>> could be next to feel our wrath." that'll win the peace for sure.

j> Historically, it is amazingly effective.  There are reasons to believe
j> it will be more effective than usual here.

Amazingly effective? At winning peace, nonsense. At promoting
fundamentalist recruitment, absolutely. We may be able to keep peace in
Iraq itself, by maintaining a military presence there (which,
incidentally, we have much more of a motive to do there than in
Afghanistan) but do you seriously believe we'll promote stability in the
region? Out of all of the interventions America has taken part in, where
have we ever established a proper democracy instead of a puppet

>> what about selling the rapist the crowbar that got him in the door
>> (and training him to use it);

j> That isn't exactly a serious argument for your side.

j> If we did this, then it means we have a duty to take care of the
j> problem.  That is a PRO war argument.

j> The other point is that the future can't be predicted with precision.

It may not be an ANTI war argument, but it sure is an argument against
intervening in the first place. And sure, the future can't be predicted
with precision, but we knew he participated in an assassination attempt
as early as 1959, and we knew his love of his secret police and crushing
any dissent WAY before gulf war I. What about promoting democracy then?
Why were we enabling this guy then? We knew what he was doing, we sold
him chemical & bio weapons:

>> it's a given that the majority of nations and individuals in the world
>> detest hussein and what he stands for, what he has done. 

j> Not operationally.  France and Russia made it clear over most of those
j> 12 years that they could care less as long as they could profit from
j> Iraq.

Whereas we have made it clear that we could care less what happens to
Iraqis as long as we can profit from their land, but we mask it under
pretenses such as "liberating Iraqis" and "regime change" and "disarming
Saddam". We've never liberated anyone, we put him in power, and we armed
him. I prefer the honesty on the part of France and Russia as opposed to
the blatant hypocrisy and lies of my own government.


Anyone who tells you they want a utopia wants to put chains on the
souls of your children. They want to deny history and strangle any
unforeseen possibility. They should be resisted to the last breath.
-Bruce Sterling-