[SPORK] Gordon, please help us out, here...
Sun, 23 Mar 2003 23:54:10 -0800
Jeff Bone writes:
> > So anyone who believes Gulf War I was legitimate should find the
> > current conflict legitimate as well.
> Not wanting to debate you, but I respectfully disagree. I, for
> example, supported Gulf War '91, but oppose this one. The differences
> are quite clear, at least to me:
My point is that this is still the exact same war.
Even without this point, there is a compelling case to unseat the
Baath regime. With this point, it should be a no-brainer even for
The distinctions you draw are tracings on the sand, which will
fade away with time and not be remembered by history. The hostilities
between the US and its allies, and Baathist Iraq, began in 1991 and
have continued more or less nonstop through the present day. They will
end when Iraq has a more legitimate, less threatening government.
> (3 of every 4 nations in the world representing 4 out of every
> 5 people in the world oppose our current action.) Etc.
Name these nations which explicitly "oppose" (rather than simply
decline to endorse) our action.
Why should a nation like China have any legal/moral say in these
matters at all?
Indeed, if it turns out that the USA and the people of Iraq agree
that it has become time, in the course of human events, to abolish
the Baath form of government, why should the opinions of other
nations, with their rather sorry records on human rights, be of
anything more than marginal interest?
> Still not sure you addressed most of those questions, but I tried.
They were all addressed in my writeup. If you're too lazy to parse
them out, here they are in a nutshell:
> (1) What do you think the actuals "goals" of this conflict are?
Replacing the criminal and illegitimate Baath regime with one that
is less dangerous for the US, the world, and Iraqis.
> (2) Do you believe that the war is "just," i.e. its goals noble?
> (3) Do you believe that coercive application of military force is
> necessary to those goals? Appropriate?
> (4) Do you believe that the war is "justified," i.e. an adequate case
> has been made for it?
> (5) Do you believe that the current American foreign / military policy
> is in the best interests of Americans?
> (6) Does this war make us safer? More prosperous?
> (7) Do you believe that the benefits of achieving these goals outweigh
> the costs?
> (8) What do you think the long-term diplomatic / economic / security
> consequences will be?
A safer world. New multilateral arrangements to fight common security
threats. A stronger economy less disrupted by antimodern outlaw regimes and
organizations. Greater deterrence of terrorism. More fear and difficulty
for terrorist organizations. Fewer American and Iraqi deaths.
> (9) How should we - American individuals - react in order to enable
> the best outcome, at this point?
For now, let the military do its job. Support the war. Wait for more
information to see if other adjustments are necessary.