[SPORK] Something I REALLY want John Hall to Try To Understand

Gordon Mohr gojomo@usa.net
Wed, 26 Mar 2003 08:35:07 -0800


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Elias said that he agrees "Iraq needs a better leader", and "The =
global/world=20
community has an obligation to end atrocities when/where they occur."

What's the plan for ending the Baathist atrocities in Iraq, that does =
not
involve military action?

Geege said something similar, along the lines of "everyone supports =
regime
change, just not through war."=20

How do you get regime change against an entrenched brutal mob without =
war?

Similarly incoherent sentiments are evident in many forums.=20

Patiently waiting for anyone to propose an alternative to war which=20
could plausibly end the Baathist reign of terror and murder. Hell,
rather than the silence so far, I'd even appreciate any implausible=20
proposals for unseating the Baath regime.=20

- Gordon
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Jeff Bone=20
  To: Gordon Mohr=20
  Cc: fork@xent.com=20
  Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 8:17 AM
  Subject: Re: [SPORK] Something I REALLY want John Hall to Try To =
Understand



  On Wednesday, Mar 26, 2003, at 09:38 US/Central, Gordon Mohr wrote:


    Elias,

    I've asked this before of people who say "Saddam must go but
    military action isn't the way to do it," but I haven't received an
    answer.


  Maybe that's because you aren't paying attention, Gordon. Elias did =
NOT say "Saddam must go but military action isn't the way to do it." =
(For that matter, that's not what I've said, either, so if I'm one of =
those "people" you mention then you're 0 for 2.)

  Elias said that "The US administration has not, in my opinion, made a =
clear and compelling case for military action and is doing great harm to =
the image of the US in the eyes of the rest of the world." Which I and =
many other people agree with.

  Had we been successful in the coalition-building / diplomatic efforts =
--- had we succeeded in making the case that this war was not only just, =
but also justified --- then I expect that many people would be much more =
supportive.

  jb



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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Elias said that he agrees "Iraq needs a better =
leader", and=20
"</FONT><FONT size=3D3>The global/world </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>community has an obligation to end atrocities =
when/where they=20
occur."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>What's the plan for ending the Baathist atrocities =
in Iraq,=20
that does not</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>involve military action?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Geege said something similar, along the lines of =
"everyone=20
supports regime</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>change, just not through war." </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>How do you get regime change against an entrenched =
brutal mob=20
without war?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Similarly incoherent sentiments are evident =
</FONT><FONT=20
size=3D2>in many forums. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Patiently waiting for anyone to propose an =
alternative to war=20
which </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>could </FONT><FONT size=3D2>plausibly end =
</FONT><FONT=20
size=3D2>the Baathist reign of terror and murder. Hell,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>rather than the silence so far, I'd even appreciate =
any=20
implausible </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>proposals for unseating the Baath regime. =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>- Gordon</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Djbone@deepfile.com href=3D"mailto:jbone@deepfile.com">Jeff =
Bone</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dgojomo@usa.net=20
  href=3D"mailto:gojomo@usa.net">Gordon Mohr</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=3Dfork@xent.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:fork@xent.com">fork@xent.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 26, 2003 =
8:17=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [SPORK] Something =
I REALLY=20
  want John Hall to Try To Understand</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><BR>On Wednesday, Mar 26, 2003, at 09:38 US/Central, =
Gordon=20
  Mohr wrote:<BR><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE><?smaller>Elias,<BR><BR>I've asked this before of people =
who say=20
    "Saddam must go but<?/smaller><BR><?smaller>military action isn't =
the way to=20
    do it," but I haven't received=20
    =
an<?/smaller><BR><?smaller>answer.<?/smaller><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Maybe =
that's=20
  because you aren't paying attention, Gordon. Elias did NOT say "Saddam =
must go=20
  but military action isn't the way to do it." (For that matter, that's =
not what=20
  I've said, either, so if I'm one of those "people" you mention then =
you're 0=20
  for 2.)<BR><BR>Elias said that "The US administration has not, in my =
opinion,=20
  made a clear and compelling case for military action and is doing =
great harm=20
  to the image of the US in the eyes of the rest of the world." Which I =
and many=20
  other people agree with.<BR><BR>Had we been successful in the=20
  coalition-building / diplomatic efforts --- had we succeeded in making =
the=20
  case that this war was not only just, but also justified --- then I =
expect=20
  that many people would be much more=20
supportive.<BR><BR>jb<BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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