Bin Laden Comes Clean, War On Terror Continues

Greg Bolcer gbolcer at endeavors.com
Thu Jan 15 08:01:21 PST 2004


Now you're getting somewhere.  When the article appeared on the 13th, it
initiated a large ongoing discussion about it in the post and riposte.   Now that
you've graduated from:
 
  1) I feel but I can't explain why
  2) Oh, go read a book
  3) Oh go read a URL (yes I was being intentionallly insulting, apologies)
  4) Oh go read this URL it's absolute truth as it's too hard for me to think
 
Maybe you can engage in a useful conversation now that you are
armed with some good material.  So, I'm willing to agree that in retrospect
that Iraq may have not been the imminent threat at the time of the war,
but isn't that like holding Jefferson as a racist because he owned slaves
and according to 1990's standards, all slaveowners are bad?  
 
The question is, were the intelligence and policies valid at the time
they were enacted and if no, what changed?  
 
Greg
 
 
-----Original Message----- 
From: Owen Byrne [mailto:owen at permafrost.net] 
Sent: Thu 1/15/2004 7:41 AM 
To: Greg Bolcer; FoRK Mailing List 
Cc: 
Subject: Re: Bin Laden Comes Clean, War On Terror Continues



	Greg Bolcer wrote:
	
	> There's your fallacy right there Owen.   The war on Iraq was
	> to prevent another 9-11, not in retaliation to the world trade center
	> one.  According to the Bush I & II, and Clinton administrations and the
	> United Nations Security Council resolutions, it was provoked and
	> justified, or don't you guys get news up there?  Try the New York
	> Times, the Atlantic Monthly, the Washington Post, even FoRK's
	> favorite periodical the Economist.   There's some
	> really good material on it if you want to dig a little deeper past your
	> intial "all war is bad" stance.
	> Greg
	>
	
	Just a 2 minute glance at the periodicals in question
	
	http://www.theatlantic.com/unbound/interviews/int2004-01-13.htm
	
	Atlantic Unbound | January 13, 2004
	
	Interviews
	
	Weapons of Misperception
	
	Kenneth M. Pollack, the author of "Spies, Lies, and Weapons: What Went
	Wrong," explains how the road to war with Iraq was paved with misleading
	and manipulated intelligence.
	
	.....
	
	n March of 2003, when America entered into war against Iraq, did Saddam
	Hussein pose an imminent threat? Theories about this question abound,
	but the tide of opinion is turning toward "no."
	
	-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	
	The Economist
	http://economist.com/opinion/displayStory.cfm?story_id=2330153
	* Al-Qaeda*
	
	*Still out there*
	Jan 8th 2004
	 From The Economist print edition
	
	
	*Some victories have been won in the West's war against al-Qaeda. But
	the danger persists*
	
	
	
	*Get article background*
	<http://economist.com/background/displayBackground.cfm?story_id=2330153&CFID=20739110&CFTOKEN=5a238f3-e1378a7f-1f8b-4f04-8081-0c9011fe151b>
	
	
	LIKE a pantomime villain, the man who is once again the world's most
	wanted fugitive has re-appeared on the global stage just when it looked
	as if the plot might be taking a turn for the better.
	
	--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	
	Ny Times:
	http://nytimes.com/2004/01/15/national/15FBI.html
	
	
	   F.B.I. Director Calls Attack Quite Likely
	
	*By ERIC LICHTBLAU*
	
	Published: January 15, 2004
	
	ASHINGTON, Jan. 14 — The F.B.I. director, Robert S. Mueller III, said on
	Wednesday that terrorists would "quite probably" strike the United
	States again and that Al Qaeda remained a major threat despite the
	lowering of the nation's threat status last week.
	--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	
	Washington Post:
	http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17897-2004Jan14.html
	
	*Kennedy Hits Bush On War *
	
	/By Helen Dewar/
	Washington Post Staff Writer
	Thursday, January 15, 2004; Page A14
	
	President Bush marketed the war on Iraq as a "political product" to
	influence the 2002 elections and is doing so again this year, Sen.
	Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.) charged yesterday in a scathing speech
	accusing Bush of putting politics ahead of national security.
	
	==========================================================================================================================
	
	
	History is replete with examples of leaders using fear and hysteria for
	their own ends. I guess my "fallacy" is believing all along that that
	was what the Bush admin was doing.
	
	Owen
	
	
	
	
	
	>
	>     -----Original Message-----     From: fork-bounces at xent.com on
	> behalf of Owen Byrne     Sent: Thu 1/15/2004 5:00 AM     To: Gordon
	> Mohr     Cc: FoRK Mailing List     Subject: Re: Bin Laden Comes Clean,
	> War On Terror Continues
	>    
	>    
	>
	>     Gordon Mohr wrote:
	>    
	>     > Osama is just an imaginary creature like the Tooth Fairy, hee hee.
	>     > Al Qaeda's attacks and plans were just bedtime scary stories, ha
	> ha.
	>     > I suppose the 3,000 people who "died" will be emerging any moment
	>     > now to rib us about their elaborate prank, ho ho.
	>     >
	>     > You crack me up.
	>     >
	>     > - Gordon
	>    
	>     I think any sympathy the US had was "Shocked and Awed" - sorry but an
	>     unprovoked war trumps an
	>     unprovoked terrorist attack. George Bush transformed Al Qaeda -
	> they're
	>     heroes now.
	>    
	>     Owen
	>    
	>    
	>     _______________________________________________
	>     FoRK mailing list
	>     http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork
	>    
	>
	> 
	>
	
	
	



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