[FoRK] Stanford Prison Experiment

snitilicious at tampabay.rr.com snitilicious at tampabay.rr.com
Sat May 8 10:30:37 PDT 2004

At 11:59 AM 5/8/2004, Gregory Alan Bolcer wrote:
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>It definitely looks like there's going to be no heroes in this story and 
>the worst is yet to come in the Iraqi prison scandal.   In one of 
>Stanford's most famous studies, I think we can get a little more insight 
>because the thing that's on everyone's mind isn't 'what' happened, but "why".

www.prisonexp.org  what that experiment tells us, along with the Milgram 
experiments, is that people easily succumb to the authority of science. In 
the military, it's the authority of the command structure. It's supposed to 
be that way.

The military has a special obligation to have put controls in place BEFORE 
this happened if, indeed, they are so ashamed (but see below). These people 
weren't trained in the Geneva conventions. There were no posters reminding 
them about such things (See the Taguba report).

Further, it would help if you didn't have Rummy running around telling 
everyone that the Geneva convention doesn't apply 
<http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A5840-2004May5.html>. Or a 
Pentagon that would prefer to ignore Powell's warnings that they needed to 
release non-combatants, etc and make sure no abuses were taking place, 
something they've known for a year. Not to mention a presdinet that 
preferred to lie to get us into a war that really wasn't about terrorism, 
but strategic control of territory from which to establish a military base 
or three.

Oh, and below are UK reports that they were involved in training MI on 
torture and sexual humiliation tactics.

"The feeling among US soldiers I've spoken to in the last week is also that 
'the gloves are off'. Many of them still think they are dealing with people 
responsible for 9/11".

Also, more reports of Brit involvement in torture, below

UK forces taught torture methods

David Leigh
Saturday May 8, 2004
The Guardian

The sexual humiliation of Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison was not an 
invention of maverick guards, but part of a system of ill-treatment and 
degradation used by special forces soldiers that is now being disseminated 
among ordinary troops and contractors who do not know what they are doing, 
according to British military sources.

The techniques devised in the system, called R2I - resistance to 
interrogation - match the crude exploitation and abuse of prisoners at the 
Abu Ghraib jail in Baghdad.

One former British special forces officer who returned last week from Iraq, 
said: "It was clear from discussions with US private contractors in Iraq 
that the prison guards were using R2I techniques, but they didn't know what 
they were doing."

He said British and US military intelligence soldiers were trained in these 
techniques, which were taught at the joint services interrogation centre in 
Ashford, Kent, now transferred to the former US base at Chicksands.

"There is a reservoir of knowledge about these interrogation techniques 
which is retained by former special forces soldiers who are being rehired 
as private contractors in Iraq. Contractors are bringing in their old friends".

Using sexual jibes and degradation, along with stripping naked, is one of 
the methods taught on both sides of the Atlantic under the slogan "prolong 
the shock of capture", he said.

Female guards were used to taunt male prisoners sexually and at British 
training sessions when female candidates were undergoing resistance 
training they would be subject to lesbian jibes.

"Most people just laugh that off during mock training exercises, but the 
whole experience is horrible. Two of my colleagues couldn't cope with the 
training at the time. One walked out saying 'I've had enough', and the 
other had a breakdown. It's exceedingly disturbing," said the former 
Special Boat Squadron officer, who asked that his identity be withheld for 
security reasons.

Many British and US special forces soldiers learn about the degradation 
techniques because they are subjected to them to help them resist if 
captured. They include soldiers from the SAS, SBS, most air pilots, 
paratroopers and members of pathfinder platoons.

A number of commercial firms which have been supplying interrogators to the 
US army in Iraq boast of hiring former US special forces soldiers, such as 
Navy Seals.

"The crucial difference from Iraq is that frontline soldiers who are made 
to experience R2I techniques themselves develop empathy. They realise the 
suffering they are causing. But people who haven't undergone this don't 
realise what they are doing to people. It's a shambles in Iraq".

The British former officer said the dissemination of R2I techniques inside 
Iraq was all the more dangerous because of the general mood among American 

"The feeling among US soldiers I've spoken to in the last week is also that 
'the gloves are off'. Many of them still think they are dealing with people 
responsible for 9/11".



Fresh Charges of Prisoner Abuse Hit UK Troops
Fri May 7, 2004 09:27 PM ET
By Astrid Zweynert

LONDON (Reuters) - British troops faced fresh accusations on Saturday that 
they abused prisoners in Iraq, with one detainee saying he was viciously 
beaten by laughing soldiers.

Separately, a newspaper said a fourth British soldier, attached to a 
regiment already under a cloud, had came forward with charges of 
ill-treatment, potentially drawing Washington's closest ally deeper into an 
abuse scandal that has rocked the United States.

In a witness statement obtained by the Independent newspaper, Iraqi 
engineer Kifah Talah said he suffered renal failure after he was beaten by 
British soldiers over three days in September 2003.

His statement will be presented to the High Court in London next week as 
part of a compensation claim against Britain by the families of Iraqis who 
say their relatives were unlawfully killed by British troops.

"The soldiers would surround us and compete as to who could kick-box us the 
furthest," Talah said in the statement quoted in Saturday's Independent. 
"The idea was to try and make us crash into the wall. "The soldiers 
appeared to be thoroughly enjoying themselves as the beating was 
accompanied by loud laughter," Talah said.

One of the men arrested with him, hotel receptionist Baha Mousa, died of 
his injuries, Talah said. His evidence has been corroborated by Mousa's 
father Daoud Mousa, who says his son was tortured to death.

'I was beaten for three days by British soldiers'
By Cahal Milmo
08 May 2004

An Iraqi prisoner has described how he was allegedly subjected to vicious 
beatings by laughing British soldiers during interrogation sessions which 
left another man dead.

In a witness statement obtained by The Independent, Kifah Talah, 44, an 
engineer, claims he was hooded and beaten about the neck, chest and 
genitals by soldiers during three days before being made to dance in front 
of his tormentors.
The engineer, who claims his injuries were so severe that he suffered renal 
failure, said he and six other detainees were made to hold out their arms 
horizontally and were beaten when they failed to do so for more than a few 
minutes. He added: "One terrible game played involved kick-boxing. The 
soldiers would surround us and compete as to who could kick-box one of us 
furthest. The idea was to try and make us crash into the wall."

The statement, part of an action being brought on behalf of the families of 
13 Iraqis allegedly killed by British troops, describes how the men were 
covered with hoods, had freezing water poured over them and given inedible 
spicy food.

Mr Talah, first interviewed by The Independent on Sunday, claims each of 
the detainees was given the name of a famous footballer, such as Marco Van 
Basten or Ruud Gullit, and they were beaten if they failed to remember it. 
One soldier allegedly told them to "dance like Michael Jackson". Basa 
Mousa, 26, a hotel receptionist, died of his injuries

Trophy Photos




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