[FoRK] [Pigdog] Civil war (fwd from evan@bad.dynu.ca)

Stephen D. Williams sdw at lig.net
Thu Nov 4 10:28:35 PST 2004

I see the logic in this.
A couple hours I was thinking about how many of the trends that 
ultra-conservatives are railing against are impossible to stop or even 
slow down much.  One good thing about our continued 'winter' is that any 
progress that is made cannot be questioned by social conservatives and 
is therefore likely to be solid progress.  We certainly have some ground 
that could be lost, but most action is likely to be formalizing opinions 
in dark 'red' areas that are of little consequence.


Jeffrey Kay wrote:

> I'm with Evan on this, but it'll never happen.  Kerry is going to 
> write another couple of books and kick back.  He's got the big bucks 
> and now more fame to go along with it.  He'll be on Saturday Night 
> Live.  The problem is that the guys who run for office are more 
> concerned about power than about any particular cause.  Kerry's 
> "cause" was to win the presidency, not to promote some agenda.  Same 
> with Bush.
> The Republicans, of late, do better creating the illusion of a "cause" 
> by latching onto emotional social issues -- gay marriage, abortion 
> rights, prayer in schools.  In the past, civil rights was the "cause" 
> du jour.  But ultimately these are excuses to grab power, not to 
> really serve the people.  Even for the Republicans in office.  There's 
> widespread panic in these discussions of a rollback of civil 
> liberties, conservative justices, and the like, but frankly I'm not 
> panicked.  These "causes" serve better as "causes".  If Roe v. Wade is 
> overturned, who do you think will get energized?  The Democrats.  If 
> prayer is school is brought back, that will only help the Democrats 
> take power.  The cause creates the illusion that the elected official 
> is fighting for the people, and if they will only keep voting for him, 
> he'll be able to keep fighting the good fight.
> What's the next cause going to be?  That's what will get the next 
> president elected.  The Democrats, if they want the next election, 
> need to take the next four years and build up a cause that will get 
> them elected.  The Republicans aren't stupid enough to actually act on 
> these causes.  They pick issues that are emotional, but they really 
> don't affect any change.
> -- jeff
> jeffrey kay
> weblog <k2.com> pgp key <www.k2.com/keys.htm> aim <jkayk2>
> share files with me -- get shinkuro -- <www.shinkuro.com>
> "first get your facts, then you can distort them at your leisure" -- 
> mark twain
> "if the person in the next lane at the stoplight rolls up the window 
> and locks the door, support their view of life by snarling at them" -- 
> a biker's guide to life
> "if A equals success, then the formula is A equals X plus Y plus Z. X 
> is work. Y is play. Z is keep your mouth shut." -- albert einstein
> On Nov 4, 2004, at 8:12 AM, Eugen Leitl wrote:
>> ----- Forwarded message from Evan Prodromou <evan at bad.dynu.ca> -----
>> From: Evan Prodromou <evan at bad.dynu.ca>
>> Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 00:34:08 -0500
>> To: The Pigdog Mailing List <pigdog at skunk.pigdog.org>
>> Subject: [Pigdog] Civil war
>> X-Mailer: Evolution 2.0.2
>> Reply-To: The Pigdog Mailing List <pigdog at skunk.pigdog.org>
>> Why is it that concession speeches always make these oblique references
>> to violent opposition to the election results? Like, "Tonight I'm asking
>> my followers not to riot and kill over these elections. Now is not the
>> time for our violent overthrow of the American system of government.
>> Please, go home, brood quietly, store ammunition, and wait for the
>> signal."
>> What the fuck? Why does John Kerry have to call for "peace" and "unity"?
>> I'm not going to die in the streets for half-ass John Kerry and the
>> shit-eating Democratic Party. Who the fuck does he think he is? He can
>> go fuck himself.
>> I want to see the candidate who gets up and says, "I was right
>> yesterday, and I'm right today: Mr. President, you are unfit for this or
>> any other office, and I and my organization are going to make it our
>> quest to make this job as difficult for you as we possibly can. I will
>> be on your heels for the next four years, questioning your every move
>> and blocking as much as I can. And I will be back to run again, and I
>> will be ready to get your job." I wouldn't be ready to shoot anyone for
>> that guy, but you bet I'd be willing to help him win next time around.
>> All this gutless "healing" shit is for fucking idiots. It's not like our
>> only choices are fraternal warfare and total submission. There's a
>> healthy middle ground of political conflict -- the dialectic of civil
>> life that is the lifeblood of a functioning democracy. Why do we have to
>> pretend we love our new ant overlords?
>> ~ESP
>> -- 
>> Evan Prodromou                  .O.
>> http://bad.dynu.ca/~evan/       ..O
>> evan at bad.dynu.ca                OOO
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>> ----- End forwarded message -----
>> -- 
>> Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a>
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