[FoRK] U.S. Undocumented Immigrant Numbers Surge

Damien Morton fork at bitfurnace.com
Mon Mar 21 17:39:27 PST 2005


Stephen D. Williams wrote:
> The only real reason to restrict immigration is to avoid damaging 
> dilution of the immigree society.  Choosing the filter methods may be 
> fraught with various biases, but trying to absorb a billion people 
> suddenly isn't going to work either.
> 
> You would think that when there are enough people who want to live in 
> the US that they would clean up their own locality to duplicate the US 
> rather than just trying to inherit from our past.  Mexico is the obvious 
> example.  Laws with teeth, systematic purging of corruption, sane 
> infrastructure.  Is it really that difficult?  There are billions 
> waiting to swoop in to build suburbia anywhere that a critical baseline 
> exists.

You know, I was in Bombay recently; a vibrant capitalist and democratic 
city. While there I read a book about Bombay called "Maximum City" (I 
highly recommend it, also "Shantaram").

In Maximum City the author describes himself visiting an ad agency. 
Bombay has rent control and tennants rights laws to rival New York city. 
The owner of the building couldnt evict anyone nor raise the rent, so he 
set about making the building uninhabitable by cutting off the central 
air conditioner, refusing to maintain the building, and putting up a big 
"Condemmed" sign in front of the building. The entryway was in a 
complete state of disrepair, and a burning hot blast of air swept 
through it; each of the tennants had their own AC system which vented 
into the atrium. The actual agency itself was swish and swanky and cool.

Now, you cant get rid of rent control and tennant rights laws once you 
put them in place; its too big a change, and too many vested interests.

In this case, the tennants are all renters and wont or cant cooperate to 
maintain the building or central AC system.

Basically, the situation is gridlock. No-one will make the first move to 
change the situation - its insane but it makes perfect sense at the same 
time. I guess its a kind of prisoners dilemma.


> sdw
> 
> Damien Morton wrote:
> 
>> Adam L Beberg wrote:
>>
>>> Lucas Gonze wrote on 3/21/2005 1:55 PM:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Adam L Beberg wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Who's them?  Aren't you them just as much as they are?
>>>>
>>>> You're not indigenous, right?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But the difference is, my ancestors did it legally via Ellis Island. I'm
>>> pro-immigration, but against open borders. There is a HUGE 
>>> difference. Let anyone with a degree or other mad skillz in I say. 
>>> But keep the 3rd world workers, and more importantly those crappy 
>>> jobs, pollution, and crime, elsewhere.
>>
>>
>>
>> Umm, ignoring for a moment your definition if "indigenous" as anyone 
>> who can trace a line back to any given white settler in the last few 
>> hundred years.
>>
>> Half the great industrialists of the last century had neither degree 
>> nor  measurable "mad skillz", and were as likely as not immigrants or 
>> the children thereof.
>>
>> What, exactly, is the difference between legal and illegal economic 
>> immigration, apart from the legal angle?
>>
>> Economic osmosis is a powerfull and easily understandable force. A 
>> force of nature, you might say.




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