[FoRK] U.S. Undocumented Immigrant Numbers Surge
jm at jmason.org
Mon Mar 21 20:46:04 PST 2005
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Stephen D. Williams writes:
> The US has had corruption in various governments and business at various
> times. Sooner or later, we cleaned house. It IS possible with the
> right attitude, mythology, and belief in the "right thing" by the
Yes -- but what if corruption was in *all* of [government, business,
banking, the legal system, civil society]? in other words if corruption
is endemic, it's a much harder thing to root out.
Even if there's a few "do-gooders" around who want to see an end to it,
(a) may not care what happens to *your* section of society because they
just want corruption cleared up as it pertains to *their* section, or
(b) are just not powerful enough to make a difference, because everyone
else is too busy to care about such a minor thing (minor compared to
making a living, that is).
> For several years it has struck me how Russia seems like it
> is living through a very US gangster-like era, albeit with the neo-KGB
> to fall back on.
> Of course it's a big deal to remove corruption from a society. Those
> suffering from corruption should get together to confront it.
> Those of us who can educate, should educate about the wrongness of
> corruption, that there are better ways, and about methods of ursurping
> power from the unjust and bringing it to the people.
> Luis Villa wrote:
> >On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 18:03:46 -0800, Justin Mason <jm at jmason.org> wrote:
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> >>Stephen D. Williams writes:
> >>>The only real reason to restrict immigration is to avoid damaging
> >>>dilution of the immigree society. Choosing the filter methods may be
> >>>fraught with various biases, but trying to absorb a billion people
> >>>suddenly isn't going to work either.
> >>>You would think that when there are enough people who want to live in
> >>>the US that they would clean up their own locality to duplicate the US
> >>>rather than just trying to inherit from our past. Mexico is the obvious
> >>>example. Laws with teeth, systematic purging of corruption, sane
> >>>infrastructure. Is it really that difficult? There are billions
> >>>waiting to swoop in to build suburbia anywhere that a critical baseline
> >>Who's supposed to do the 'laws with teeth, systematic purging of
> >>corruption, sane infrastructure' part?
> >> - The (corrupt) government and its bureaucracy, who are all doing
> >> quite nicely thank you, without these things interfering with
> >> their kickback cashflow? or:
> >> - The citizens, in an armed revolution or something?
> >>It's quite a big deal removing corruption from a society. bear in mind
> >>it's often not just govt, but the entire social system -- I talked to
> >>people in Nepal who wouldn't deal with banks, for example, due to the
> >>corruption in *that* system.
> >Couple other notes:
> >* as in Russia, the top strata of society (in terms of wealth and
> >power) in many Latin American countries are either kleptocrats or the
> >descendants of kleptocrats. They have a vested interest in the status
> >* we often complain that poor Americans (and even our middle class)
> >have it pretty bad in terms of income, power, whatever, and how the
> >Man Keeps Us Down. Anyone who says that has no fucking idea how good
> >they have it relative to most of the rest of the world.
> >* It's been pointed out, wrt the embargo on Cuba, that if you are
> >working every waking moment to not starve, you have very little time
> >to ponder overthrowing the government, Justin's second point.
> >Closing note: Latin American histofy prof at Cornell once told a
> >friend 'it is impossible to study Latin American history without
> >becoming a Marxist.' I'm not sure about impossible but I'll accept
> >'damn hard.'
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