[FoRK] "What did the president know and when did he know it?"

Stephen D. Williams sdw
Wed Jul 6 17:32:21 PDT 2005

Ian Andrew Bell (FoRK) wrote:

> On 6-Jul-05, at 4:26 PM, Stephen D. Williams wrote:
>> Ian, "Difficulty existing in competition with" is the essence and  
>> ultimate measure of "better".
> Oh really?  Then science has it all wrong!  Why even bother with  
> control mechanisms in experimentation then?
> The great race between Communism and Capitalism had nothing to do  
> with which was the better system -- it had everything to do with  
> which society was more capable of consuming resources -- not  
> necessarily more efficiently, but  -- faster, while preserving the  
> illusion of prosperity.  Guess what?  Capitalism won that race (at  
> the expense of the planet) and now the world's great beacon of  
> Capitalism balks at any mention of curtailing its continuing  
> exhaustion of the planet's ecosystem.
> Now I'm no Marxist, but I sure don't support any system of belief  
> which ignores the limitations that the finite resources of this  
> planet must force upon it.  This is true of both Communism and  
> American Capitalism.  The commies at least had the good sense to call  
> it quits before it ate them alive -- I doubt America will be that smart.

What ARE the finite resources of this planet?  You certainly are worried 
about a lot more than I.
While there may be a limit to the rate of "production" of a particular 
resource, I really can only think of two things that qualify as a finite 
resource: oil and unique species (i.e. the "liveness" of a particular 
DNA group).  (Possibly also uranium.)

So, what are all of those finite resources that America is wasting to 
the definite detriment of all future generations?
Do you think we're going to run out of water?  Air?  Helium?  What?
In your answer, please explain how it is impossible for the human race 
to recover from the gross misuse of the planet thus far.

On another point, Communists never struck me as being environmentalists 
AT ALL.  Maybe your point is that they were so inept that they could 
never have got it together to keep industry working enough to make a 
dent in "resources".

>> Read: "The Selfish Gene" - Richard Dawkins, second half where he  
>> defines a "meme".
> I read this book more than a decade ago, one of dozens on the topic  
> toward achieving a degree in the field.  But thanks, and you're  
> taking his argument completely out of context.

I disagree, as do many who look at things from the memetic point of view.

> -Ian.

swilliams at hpti.com http://www.hpti.com Per: sdw at lig.net http://sdw.st
Stephen D. Williams 703-724-0118W 703-995-0407Fax 20147-4622 AIM: sdw

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