Bashing Re: [FoRK] Christians and atheists
Dr. Ernie Prabhakar
<drernie at radicalcentrism.org> on
Fri May 11 16:54:55 PDT 2007
On May 10, 2007, at 3:30 PM, Tom Higgins wrote:
> Those were not Atheists in the USSR, those were Soviets, followers of
> a state...see my list above. It is a fact that much of the USSR were
> actually Christians by choice and Soviets by force. So what you have
> there and then was not folks who disbelieved in the hocus pocus of
> some higher all powerful authority who controlled their ethics,morals
> and daily life...what you had there and then was folks who
> belived/were forced to belive in a higher all powerful authority who
> controlled their ethics,morals and daily life...the state...
> Thus NO SALE on your bashing of atheists.
So, help me out here. I see three categories of atheists:
a) One (like you) seeks the moral high ground, and sees atheism as
intrinsically *more* tolerant of Christianity
b) Another (like Communism) sees their brand of atheism as justifying
intense persecution of Christians (and any other believers, as well as
c) A third faction (Jeff) sees religious people as *deserving*
disrespect, and perhaps active suppression
I am genuinely interesting in finding out:
I. How you do distinguish between what you consider "true" atheists
and those who *claim* atheism but are actually "true-believers" in
state or some other ideology? For example, militant humanists count
as "atheists" or "true believers"?
II. Do you consider Jeff's position closer to (a) or (b)?
>> Perhaps we need a better term, so as not to confuse the good people
>> of FoRK with those atheists who have perverted a noble secular ideal
>> into something used to bash, kill, and harm belivers.
> Nope, because then you would seek to smear that term.
Actually, no. I really do want to know how you'd like me to
differentiate between so-called atheists (e.g., Communists) who
persecute Christians (and other groups) vs. what it is that you
believe (or disbelieve).
I agree it may well be unfair to lump such groups together, but I
honestly don't know the best way to characterize the distinction.
In particular, can you give me a solid reason to believe that people
like Jeff wouldn't end up like (b) out of their desire to purge the
world of Christianity? I certainly hope not, but I wouldn't mind a
> Also, why just
> limit it to exclude bashing, killing and harming "belivers"???? Are
> Unbelievers not covered as well? Fraking amazing what comes out of
> otherwise rational folks sometimes.
I'm sorry, I was just inverting the initial comment. You're right, of
course; Christians and Communists have persecuted both believers and
non-believers. In fact, if I recall my history correctly, Christians
have generally done far more violence towards other Christians than to
any other group. Would you disagree?
-- Ernie P.
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