[FoRK] Brownback defines science

Lion Kimbro <lionkimbro at gmail.com> on Sat Jun 2 03:28:44 PDT 2007

On 6/1/07, Tom Higgins <tomhiggins at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6/1/07, Lion Kimbro <lionkimbro at gmail.com> wrote:
> >   I think that saying, "We're just as uniquely as amazing as all the
> >   other plants and animals" requires a stretch of reason, and I don't
> >   think it's a very strong point.
> A great example of the humancentric attitude that shits on the rest of
> the planet, the universe even due to being so little minded as to
> think your particular set of self is the Uniquely Amazing item of all.

  As far as I know, our net cosmic effect on the universe as a whole
  is pretty much near zero.

  I think that the human-centric attitude is to save as much life on Earth
  as we are presently capable of saving;  Our major sins so far have
  been lack of information, and lack of knowledge of how to structure
  our governments and relations in order to make sure that we can meet
  our aims.

  I think if you ask people, "Should we save the penguins," I think most
  everybody would say, "Yes, of course."

  If you hate humans, just go out and say so.  Just don't be surprised
  when people consistently vote for religious candidates.

> Its the same attitude that claims one tribe is the CHOSEN over all
> others, one set of people superior to another, one this better than
> any other that ...which leads to justification to all sort of very
> nasty behaviors ...look in the news for a good example.

  This is an argument that carries weight, so I'd like to explore it with you:

  * Aristotle said that pride was a virtue.
  * Can humans have pride, while not justifying the nasty behaviors?

  I'll  argue that people who put themselves *beneath* others are also
  guilty of sins.

  Further, that people who do not take delight in their talent are *also*
  guilty of sins.

  While maintaining reverence and protection for the weak, I believe
  that humans should be bold, and proud.

  We've made countless mistakes, and we can, should, must, and will
  learn from them.  (Or we will destroy ourselves, in which case our
  discussion and efforts have no point.)  But we can't afford to lose
  sight of our accomplishments and pride and possibilities.  In fact,
  we should *focus* on them.

  As far as I understand, a positive frame of mind, and a can-do spirit,
  is essential to just about every undertaking.  Right?  Do you doubt
  this point?

> This need you have to be RIGHT, righteously, is a nasty fault.


  The need I have is to strive for what is good, recognizing full
  well that I may be wrong.

  I believe I hold a treasure--  Not uniquely, but rather rarely,
  and a treasure it is:  A puzzle piece on how to solve some of
  the crazy religion--and-atheist debates that are happening in
  our time.

  I think everyone here holds a puzzle piece, and I believe it's
  our mission, spoken or otherwise, to puzzle out how things work.

  I do not claim to have all the answers, and I do not claim to
  be right in all things.

  I am contributing what I have, though, and believe we should
  (and will) all do the same, when it is our turn.

> Have we become that shallow here, in this place? We are part of a
> system of IDIC (go look it up if yo have to) that is amazing in all
> its parts.

  I did have to look it up, but I see what you're saying.

  Yes, it is amazing.

  Nonetheless, it's an organisms first job to take responsibility for
  itself, and to look out for itself.

  There's the tale of the spoons-- they're all long.  The only difference
  between heaven and hell, is that in hell, everyone's trying to supp
  themselves, and in heaven, everyone is supping each other.

  I can see an argument there, that we should not hold ourselves in

  But I think that misunderstands my position:  I'm not saying we
  should ignore other creatures, or treat them poorly.  Rather, we
  should take our own loves and emotions and cares **seriously,**
  and thus look after the Earth, the plants, the creatures on it, and
  so on.

  That is:  **It is a principle of extreme self-interest, to tend to
the Earth.**

  When we destroy the Earth, we destroy ourselves, and when we look
  at it that way, the only course of action to be taken is obvious.

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