[FoRK] Re: An armed society... (freakin' Canada.)

Lion Kimbro <lionkimbro at gmail.com> on Thu Sep 20 12:24:27 PDT 2007

  Here, here!

  I basically agree with what you're saying, and don't want to detract
  from that.


  I have (possibly) one point of difference:

> Somehow they lived there for fucking millenia without slaughtering
> one another, without enhancing desertification, and without starving
> to death.

  I strongly doubt that plan "abandon civilization" (Quinn) can work.

  I think the "way out" has got to be the "through."

  I *can* imagine myself riding a bike to work, or to an advanced
  telecommuting / coworking center, that becomes work, picking up
  food that was locally grown, on the way.  I can imagine myriad
  local currencies.  I can imagine living with less stuff, but much
  happier, because I'm working on exciting projects that are really
  contributing to people's happiness, and the health of the world;
  Things that **don't** make them feel like cogs in corporate
  machinery, striving for material validations of worth.  Rather,
  things like Louis Villa's dream mailing list software, which makes
  it easier to connect with people.

  I *can't* envision doing the bow and arrows thing.  Not unless
  we nuke ourselves first, or some other major catastrophe, and
  I've reincarnating millions years hence.  I'd really rather not go
  back to either (A) the barbarism of tribes, or (B) fishing every
  day, and participating in a primitive gift culture, whichever it is.
  I'd be too busy trying to figure out, "What is Real?" and
  trying to figure out how to reinvent science.  (Which leads back
  into civilization.)  Ordering thoughts, and so on.


On 9/20/07, Ian Andrew Bell <hello at ianbell.com> wrote:
> On 20-Sep-07, at 10:06 AM, Kevin Elliott wrote:
>
> > On Sep 20, 2007, at 8:36:27AM, Ian Andrew Bell wrote:
> >> ~165,000 people die EVERY DAY of hunger on this planet.  How can
> >> anyone describe it as a land of plenty?
> >
> > That's easy.  I don't believe those people died because their isn't
> > enough food.  Those people died because the situation they're in
> > prevented them from getting food.  I also don't believe that that
> > situation is the western worlds "fault".  The 3rd world has a boot
> > on their neck of awful, corrupt, evil government that is preventing
> > them from achieving the growth that would get them out of the
> > sinkhole they're in.
>
> Yes, and that boot is conspicuously of the same size as that of the
> World Bank and IMF.  Not the Western World's fault?  How many famines
> were there in Africa before we showed up and forced nomadic peoples
> to stop moving around (by drawing arbitrary borders) and to live
> sedentary lifestyles, farming (or trying to) and fucking instead of
> hunting and thriving?
>
> Somehow they lived there for fucking millenia without slaughtering
> one another, without enhancing desertification, and without starving
> to death.  Maybe they have something to teach us, for a change?
>
> > Certainly the western world can and should do more to help, but I
> > think the evidence is overwhelming that pouring buckets of money
> > into Africa won't make them better off.
>
> Who advocated that?
>
> > If your standing next to a big pile of food, and the thing
> > preventing you from getting to that food is an evil man with a gun,
> > your problem is not "shortage of food" but a "surplus of evil men".
>
> If you're gorging yourself on every natural resource available,
> piling up debt (both financial and environmental) and then proudly
> broadcasting images of your decadence all over the world in Movies,
> TV reruns, and MySpace DON'T be shocked to hear that other people
> want it too.
>
> The problem is that the earth cannot sustain that particular level of
> consumption by 6 billion people.
>
> You SHIT more in one sitting than most of these people eat in a
> month, and yet you expect them to be placated with a fucking bag of
> wheat proudly labeled "PRODUCT of USA", air-dropped from a C-130.
> Nice job!  Glad you feel better!  Plentiful indeed!
>
> -Ian.
>
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