[FoRK] " Atheists behind the greatest cruelty, says Pope"

[Jeff Bone]

On Dec 4, 2007, at 12:02 PM, Sat N wrote:

> But religion is also the source
> of immense good — hospitals, hospices, relief organisations,
> universities and schools, great cathedrals, music, art and literature
> and philosophy. Would the world be better without such things?

This is a perfect example of a really infuriating tendency of  
religious apologists:  the co-opting of "goods" in the name of  
religion that, in fact, are not necessarily very or at all religious  
in their fundamental character.

- hospitals...  who makes hospitals work?  Doctors.  What do doctors  
do?  Practice medicine.  What is medicine?  Applied science.
- hospices, relief organizations:  the arrogant claim here is that  
charitability is a religious rather than humane thing
- music, art, and literature:  how arrogant does religion have to be  
to lay claim to any particular creative work?  I mean really...

One might as well claim that everything positive that humans do is a  
result of *science* since all humans are biological and biology is a  
science.  That makes just about as much sense...  I suspect that we'd  
get along on all those fronts --- philanthropy, architecture, art,  
and CERTAINLY philosophy --- just fine or even better without religion.

Thought experiment:  put two people in a room, a historically- 
informed advocate of science and an apologist for religion.  In  
alternating turns, the "scientist" makes one specific claim of an  
evil due to religion, then the religionist makes one specific claim  
of a particular good due to religion.  Repeat indefinitely.  Who do  
you think runs out of things to say first?

I know where my money's at on that proposition...

jb