<jef at jefallbright.net> on
Sun Dec 30 14:08:56 PST 2007
On 12/30/07, Lucas Gonze <lucas.gonze at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > From: jef at jefallbright.net:
> > > > Even more philosophically, I would argue that by each action an agent
> > > > demonstrates commitment to an ontology, albeit one that is necessarily
> > > > incomplete and evolving.
> I dunno, Jef, I think you're crossing layers. It's true that one
> could infer from my statement that I agree (or not) with your
> description of the real world, but I wasn't making an assertion about
> the nature of the real world. What I am asserting is that atheism is
> equivalent to believing in the real world. I am also asserting that
> religion of any kind is the same as not believing in the real world.
My point wasn't so much about "the real world", or about belief or
lack of belief in "the real world". My point was about the subjective
nature of knowing (and the knower) and its relationship to a presumed
I basically agree with your stance on belief in a material world but
add that it doesn't fly until you include the epistemological status
of the observer.
Then you can model the evolutionary basis of individual values, the
scientific (instrumental) basis by which we promote our individual and
shared values with increasing effectiveness, and the process by which
we tend toward increasingly convergent principles of the probable,
supporting increasingly divergent exploration of the possible.
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