[FoRK] Obama: communitarian, redistributionist, confused? (from NYT)
geege4 at gmail.com
Tue Aug 26 10:39:07 PDT 2008
On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 1:30 PM, Stephen D. Williams <sdw at lig.net> wrote:
> J. Andrew Rogers wrote:
>> On Aug 26, 2008, at 6:30 AM, geege schuman wrote:
>>> Sorry - I'm a trickle up kinda person, not a trickle down. JAR's
>>> the lack of capital NOW, under the current Bush tax cuts. Something
>> I am not lamenting a lack of capital now, so I do not know how you could
>> read it that way.
> On Aug 25, 2008, at 3:07 PM, Stephen D. Williams wrote:
>* I didn't say that optimism without working capital would work. I
*>* was saying that working capital without optimism doesn't work, or at
*>* least not with any speed.
I have never noticed a shortage of optimism by the people that would
spend capital were it available. In fact, there are abundant and
foolish amounts of optimism. *I *have* noticed a chronic shortage of
capital. *It seems to me it would be foolish to further restrict the
rate limiting resource.
Depending on the type of capital, there is quite a bit right now. Venture
>> capital is pretty flush in spite of Sarbanes-Oxley poisoning that market a
>> bit, but government policy has been slowing that market. There are probably
>> a couple million jobs in the US economy that are only profitable at the
>> current capital gains rates, so those would go away; the lower capital gains
>> rates have undoubtedly helped dampen the economic impact of Bush's stupid
>> Considering that somewhere around 5-10 million jobs in the US economy are
>> essentially created by private capital investments, what do you think will
>> happen if that investment pool shrinks significantly? Those jobs are not
>> sustained by magic but by private capital willing to take a risk. Not only
>> that, it will only take a couple years for that to manifest. Do you really
>> want an All Democrat, All The Time government when that crap hits the fan
>> with no one to blame but the Democrats? The economy is tenuous enough as it
>> is, no need to aggravate the situation by weakening the capital markets.
> Raising the capital gains max rate to 20% from what, 15% it is now,
> while eliminating it altogether for start-up businesses is going to shrink
> the investment pool significantly?? That actually sounds like a great
> improvement to me. More reverse economy of scale. As someone interested in
> startups, why wouldn't I buy that rather than the status quo? You guys are
> hand waving about how the Obama proposal is so horrible, however I don't see
> you giving enough specifics that back that up. Upon first glance, I see
> exactly the opposite effect is likely: There would be a flood of investment
> into startups to get 0% capital gains taxation, which would still be 15%
> under McCain.
>  It appears that it is 0% or 15% now and with the expiration of the
> existing temporary tax cut legislation that it will revert to 8 or 10% and
> 18 or 20% in 2010 with no action.
>> In politics, it is apparently okay to shaft hundreds of little guys in
>> order to shaft a big guy who never really deserved it in the first place,
>> but no one ever seems to take responsibility for shafting all those little
>> guys, only the big guy.
>> J. Andrew Rogers
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