[FoRK] Finally, someone who can do the job better than I could

geege schuman geege4 at gmail.com
Thu Jan 22 14:58:26 PST 2009

I can agree with you.  Exactly, in fact.

The list describes a slope of inevitability from ideology to action and
explains how we ended up in Iraq without sanction or support.  So, yeah, I
agree with you: Clarke defines both bullies (us) and terrorists (them).

 So when the US asserts its sovereignty, as the mightiest of nations, it
must consider if / how it impinges on another's less mighty.  A HIGH
tolerance for diplomacy; LEADERSHIP in multinational organizations; emphasis
on BUILDING SUPPORT (not concensus!); focus on JUSTICE - how can these
traits do anything but elevate and strengthen us?

Well, anyway,

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 3:43 PM, J. Andrew Rogers <
andrew at ceruleansystems.com> wrote:

> On Jan 22, 2009, at 11:08 AM, geege schuman wrote:
>> <In January 2009, at the close of President George W. Bush's second term
>> in
>> office, Jonathan Clarke, a senior fellow at the Carnegie Council for
>> Ethics
>> in International
>> Affairs<
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnegie_Council_for_Ethics_in_International_Affairs>,
>> proposed the following as the "main characteristics of
>> neoconservatism"[35]<
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservative#cite_note-34>
>> :
>>  - "a tendency to see the world in binary good/evil terms
>>  - low tolerance for diplomacy
>>  - readiness to use military force
>>  - emphasis on US unilateral action
>>  - disdain for multilateral organisations
>>  - focus on the Middle East". >
> This is a good example of the problem of characterizing groups in this way.
>  If you removed the "US" in "emphasis on US unilateral action", the above
> legitimately characterizes the mobs of pro-Palestinian protesters around
> here at least as well as real neocons.  These are artifacts of a defining
> perspective, symptoms and not the disease.
> As a defining perspective, a "neocon" is essentially a religious socialist
> with a fixation on American exceptionalism.  The above characteristics are
> simply circumstantial consequences of this.  I suppose the similarity to
> Palestinian characteristics is not so surprising when you consider that it
> is essentially just another flavor of religious socialist with strong
> nationalist tendencies.
> (Depending on how you define "religious", "socialist", and "nationalist",
> that perspective probably defines 75+% of the world's population, including
> most Americans. Unfortunately.)
> Cheers,
> J. Andrew Rogers
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