[FoRK] Accidental theorist lost, wanted back
eugen at leitl.org
Fri Jul 17 08:48:53 PDT 2009
On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 05:49:41PM -0400, geege schuman wrote:
> It's the fear factor that keeps us at their beck and call, and they at ours.
Please do not top-post. Simply putting.
> Simply putting,
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 5:43 PM, Stephen Williams <sdw at lig.net> wrote:
> > J. Andrew Rogers wrote:
> >> On Jul 16, 2009, at 1:50 PM, Stephen Williams wrote:
> >>> As just one clear example of the kind of artificially enforced
> >>> inefficiencies:
> >>> Many people have severe snoring and sleep apnea, which is now known to
> >>> cause several issues. You can buy a CPAP device and mask for as little as
> >>> $300 that cures the problem with essentially no risks to a reasonably
> >>> healthy person. Except it is RX only, so the minimum costs of the process
> >>> and equipment amount to $2000-4000.
> >>> Or people who go for appointments ($100-180 for a specialist) to have
> >>> measurements taken that could have been done at home. Temp and blood
> >>> pressure devices are available at the pharmacy, however pulse/Ox and ECG
> >>> machines are supposed to be RX only. You can get a pocket pulse/ox for
> >>> <$100 and a pocket, recording ECG with display for $400. An office ECG
> >>> probably costs $200 each. (They are better, but the pocket device is good
> >>> enough for many checks.)
> >> In other words, deregulation of the medical industry would markedly reduce
> >> cost.
> >> Yet all the standard paternalistic arguments for the regulation still very
> >> much apply in the cases you cite above. Are we finally at the point where we
> >> as a society are willing to slightly increase the incidence of bad outcomes
> >> for significant reductions in cost? I doubt it.
> > There has to be some room to improve, possibly drastically. I do what I
> > can: I self-diagnose, use over the counter when it works as well (or better
> > in a couple cases), and find other efficiencies. I think I've mentioned
> > before that I found that I could get an xray to rule out fracture for $20 at
> > my chiropractor.
> > I've been galled by the system a lot too though.
> > The thing is, we have more worse outcomes now than we would with a more
> > informed, self-service medical pattern. People avoid going to the hospital
> > because it is far too expensive and usually ineffective, avoid the doctor,
> > stop treatment, etc. I just met a woman Sunday who had 3 broken ribs and a
> > collapsed lung who avoided going to the hospital for a week.
> > If we could see the nearest "medic" for 5 minutes to solve or rule-out
> > problems, we'd all be much better off. The amount of time wasted on
> > appointments, missed work, travel, waiting, etc. is terrible. We don't put
> > up with it in much of the rest of our lives, but we're stuck with the old
> > model for medicine, mostly.
> > sdw
> >> J. Andrew Rogers
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