From tomhiggins at gmail.com Mon Nov 23 09:15:44 2009 From: tomhiggins at gmail.com (Tom Higgins) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:15:44 -0800 Subject: [FoRK] Problems facing our solipsism In-Reply-To: <20091122195433.GP17686@leitl.org> References: <6E3835C5-B381-49F5-9DE7-A428A57AF2CD@place.org> <20091120183632.GA16217@aaron-xps> <20091122195433.GP17686@leitl.org> Message-ID: If you are looking for people who can guide the actions of humans such that realities are formed both in fact and in function, then you need look no further than the pulpit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-CAcdta_8I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cn2vHItAio The mass animal still works on primal levels of hierarchical daddy fear/love. Those that know this and can manipulate it seem , in the long run , to hold the reigns of reality firm. Predictive models, minmax payoff lines, monetization of follower based reality constructs, fiscal advancement, viral growth and group dynamics....yea I think you will find that all covered pretty well in there educational constructs. So if you are looking for a way to lead, to utilize realities for leverage...i would say what most every faith based person would....Go With God! -tom(watching the Roman Catholic system doing a reality morph is an amusing lab session)higgins From ken_ganshirt at yahoo.ca Mon Nov 23 09:26:29 2009 From: ken_ganshirt at yahoo.ca (Ken Ganshirt @ Yahoo) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:26:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [FoRK] When Science Isn't Quite In-Reply-To: <55EC1E1B-0D12-4910-A783-30C7ED057D75@ceruleansystems.com> Message-ID: <535307.89858.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Here's an interview with Dr. Tim Ball on his reaction to the "liberated" information. http://noconsensus.wordpress.com/ ...ken... __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ From ken_ganshirt at yahoo.ca Mon Nov 23 09:30:09 2009 From: ken_ganshirt at yahoo.ca (Ken Ganshirt @ Yahoo) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:30:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [FoRK] When Science Isn't Quite In-Reply-To: <535307.89858.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <243775.91461.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- On Mon, 11/23/09, Ken Ganshirt @ Yahoo wrote: > Here's an interview with Dr. Tim Ball > on his reaction to the "liberated" information. > > http://noconsensus.wordpress.com/ > > ? ? ? ???...ken... > In the interest of full disclosure, Ball is an ardent proponent of the notion that anthropogenic warming is a fraud. Not just erroneous science but an intentional fraud. http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/17102 ...ken... __________________________________________________________________ The new Internet Explorer? 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ From khare at alumni.caltech.edu Mon Nov 23 12:09:54 2009 From: khare at alumni.caltech.edu (Rohit Khare) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:09:54 -0800 Subject: [FoRK] Urgent: I need your help with knx.to! Message-ID: FoRKs -- This list will enter its 15th year next month! I haven't asked for your help very often in all those years, but today's the day I could use it: We're launching the first app on the new LinkedIn API platform today. It's a real-time search engine for all of your private social network connections -- an address book with live status updates: http://www.angstro.com/knx-to-launches-linkedin-api Please come test the app, leave feedback, and tell us what it ought to do... and *retweet* http://twitter.com/knxto/status/5982065999 Thanks, RK From danbri at danbri.org Mon Nov 23 12:29:03 2009 From: danbri at danbri.org (Dan Brickley) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:29:03 +0100 Subject: [FoRK] Urgent: I need your help with knx.to! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 9:09 PM, Rohit Khare wrote: > FoRKs -- > > This list will enter its 15th year next month! I haven't asked for your help > very often in all those years, but today's the day I could use it: > > We're launching the first app on the new LinkedIn API platform today. It's a > real-time search engine for all of your private social network connections > -- an address book with live status updates: > http://www.angstro.com/knx-to-launches-linkedin-api > > Please come test the app, leave feedback, and tell us what it ought to do... > and *retweet* http://twitter.com/knxto/status/5982065999 This does look really promising, and the twitter oauth login went very smoothly. I like the greyed out / coloured icon presentation, hope that catches on as a cross-site idiom. However when I clicked on LinkedIn icon in htp://knx.to it invited me to use my LinkedIn password. Is that OAuth running in an iframe or similar, or did I find a non-OAuth version somehow? >From "We?re proud that knx.to is the first shipping application using their latest OAuth-based API." I wasn't expecting to be asked for my linkedin credentials unless I was obviously on their site... cheers, Dan From danbri at danbri.org Mon Nov 23 12:51:44 2009 From: danbri at danbri.org (Dan Brickley) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:51:44 +0100 Subject: [FoRK] Urgent: I need your help with knx.to! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 9:29 PM, Dan Brickley wrote: > On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 9:09 PM, Rohit Khare wrote: >> FoRKs -- >> >> This list will enter its 15th year next month! I haven't asked for your help >> very often in all those years, but today's the day I could use it: >> >> We're launching the first app on the new LinkedIn API platform today. It's a >> real-time search engine for all of your private social network connections >> -- an address book with live status updates: >> http://www.angstro.com/knx-to-launches-linkedin-api >> >> Please come test the app, leave feedback, and tell us what it ought to do... >> and *retweet* http://twitter.com/knxto/status/5982065999 > > This does look really promising, and the twitter oauth login went very > smoothly. I like the greyed out / coloured icon presentation, hope > that catches on as a cross-site idiom. However when I clicked on > LinkedIn icon in htp://knx.to it invited me to use my LinkedIn > password. Is that OAuth running in an iframe or similar, or did I find > a non-OAuth version somehow? > > From "We?re proud that knx.to is the first shipping application using > their latest OAuth-based API." I wasn't expecting to be asked for my > linkedin credentials unless I was obviously on their site... My apologies, on closer inspection it was an api.linkedin.com popup, which i couldn't find again (until i pressed apple-tilde later); and your site didn't bring to the foreground when i logged out and tried to re-enter. So I'd recommend a quick fix there if possible. One of the benefits of OAuth in theory is that the browser remembers your password for linkedin.com or whatever; however in this case the popup is loading from some new corner of linkedin.com and the password fields don't get prepopulated. Since I don't remember my password this is a downer. Also I waited 20 minutes before finding the popup so my auth session timed out; at the first guess of my password I get this: 'There was an error processing the request: You did not complete the authorization in a timely manner, please retry '. They could improve their flow at this point: retry isn't hyperlinked, and a reload doesn't do the job (and needs an http post too). So anyway I closed the popup window and retried in knx.to and all seems fine now. Flickr worked fine. Google Mail didn't: the pop up says "The site knx.to is requesting access to your Google Account for the product(s) listed below. Google Contacts - http://www.google.com/m8/feeds Google is not affiliated with knx.to, and we recommend that you grant access only if you trust the site. If you grant access, you can revoke access at any time under 'My Account'. knx.to will not have access to your password or any other personal information from your Google Account. Learn more" ...and no sign of a 'grant access' dialog anywhere, even if I wait a while for images to load. The URL in the middle is 404. Not sure what m8 is nor why there's a labs logo next to it, but nothing working there for now. Still, this is all looking pretty good for oauth. Not sure I like the popup flow but just the mere fact the data's accessible this way is great... cheers, Dan From beberg at mithral.com Mon Nov 23 13:02:40 2009 From: beberg at mithral.com (Adam L Beberg) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:02:40 -0800 Subject: [FoRK] When Science Isn't Quite In-Reply-To: <14d615330911221531x65fa7ae6n472ff0d735643ed1@mail.gmail.com> References: <14d615330911221448w9efb19ambf60dea43327911d@mail.gmail.com> <155400.13538.qm@web33001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <14d615330911221531x65fa7ae6n472ff0d735643ed1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B0AF870.5040803@mithral.com> Jeremy Apthorp wrote on 11/22/2009 3:31 PM: > Since when was science more about hoarding your > information than the search for truth? It's funny how some people think scientists get paid. You write a grant proposal saying what you'll do. If you don't produce, you're career is in great jeopardy, if not over because the funding agency will blacklist you. This is no secret - you get the idea an make it work, then write the grant, during which you think up and produce the thing for the next grant while writing up the previous thing. Which all works out in the end unless science just comes to a complete stop suddenly one day, but the n+1 ideas are already paid for, so this isn't a problem. If you give others your ideas before you are done with them, they will get the grant not you because to get funding you have to be working on an important area - measured by how much money there is for that area. Love the recursion :) So the first rule of scienced club is you DO NOT talk about science club. In the end the science gets done and the errors are corrected eventually. About half of peer reviewed ideas end up wrong in some way, but that means half are progress which the next iteration feeds off... And incidents of things going rogue into a realm where the popular thing getting all the money is BS are pretty rare *cough*string theory*cough*. -- Adam L. Beberg http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/ From ken_ganshirt at yahoo.ca Mon Nov 23 15:19:03 2009 From: ken_ganshirt at yahoo.ca (Ken Ganshirt @ Yahoo) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:19:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [FoRK] Roll-up computing Message-ID: <920728.85350.qm@web33005.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The twenty-first century's answer to the scroll. Leaping backwards into the future.... http://www.orkin-design.de/ I'd probably buy one. ...ken... __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ From mike at dierken.com Mon Nov 23 19:54:26 2009 From: mike at dierken.com (S. Mike Dierken) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:54:26 -0800 Subject: [FoRK] Urgent: I need your help with knx.to! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52A5636CD66548588BCB6BE9CD78DB25@Mercury> Where should we leave the feedback? (on the comments of that blog post?) I twittered it yesterday & will again sometime this week. -----Original Message----- From: fork-bounces at xent.com [mailto:fork-bounces at xent.com] On Behalf Of Rohit Khare Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 12:10 PM To: FoRK Mailing List Subject: [FoRK] Urgent: I need your help with knx.to! FoRKs -- This list will enter its 15th year next month! I haven't asked for your help very often in all those years, but today's the day I could use it: We're launching the first app on the new LinkedIn API platform today. It's a real-time search engine for all of your private social network connections -- an address book with live status updates: http://www.angstro.com/knx-to-launches-linkedin-api Please come test the app, leave feedback, and tell us what it ought to do... and *retweet* http://twitter.com/knxto/status/5982065999 Thanks, RK _______________________________________________ FoRK mailing list http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork From tomhiggins at gmail.com Tue Nov 24 10:44:00 2009 From: tomhiggins at gmail.com (Tom Higgins) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 10:44:00 -0800 Subject: [FoRK] Urgent: I need your help with knx.to! In-Reply-To: <52A5636CD66548588BCB6BE9CD78DB25@Mercury> References: <52A5636CD66548588BCB6BE9CD78DB25@Mercury> Message-ID: Looks good. I added up my facebook, linked in, twitter and gmail contacts. All went thru the grant process fine. It is a hella nice tool to extract info on folks strewn across my social network. My first task was to see what my brothers current working email addy was...handily done via the search of his name. Nice work. -tom(search)higgins From khare at alumni.caltech.edu Tue Nov 24 14:01:05 2009 From: khare at alumni.caltech.edu (Rohit Khare) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:01:05 -0800 Subject: [FoRK] Ethiopian raised in Sweden become US citizen to cook for Indian PM at White House... Message-ID: A.R. Rehman will be performing, too. Full menus and history: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/blogs/dinersjournal/StateDinner.pdf http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5hyPfemI3QR-QlarNSsEkXv7DqAow Guest chef raids White House garden for state dinner menu By Nancy Benac (CP) WASHINGTON ? On a damp, chilly Tuesday, guest chef Marcus Samuelsson was still out tromping around the White House garden picking herbs for that evening's state dinner at the White House. Samuelsson, the award-winning chef of Aquavit, a Scandinavian restaurant in New York City, was brought in by first lady Michelle Obama to help prepare a largely vegetarian meal in honour of Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, who is vegetarian. At a preview of the dinner, Mrs. Obama called Samuelsson "one of the finest chefs in the country." Samuelsson's mission: dinner for 320 using fresh, sustainable and regional foods that reflect the best of American cuisine and evoke the flavours of India. The result: a menu featuring potato and eggplant salad, red lentil soup and roasted potato dumplings or green curry prawns. Samuelsson, who was born in Ethiopia, raised in Sweden and recently became a U.S. citizen, was out in the garden Monday night and Tuesday harvesting arugula, pineapple sage, fresh dill, oregano and thyme for the meal. Some of the herbs were used in the vinaigrette and others to garnish plates and trays of passed appetizers. At age 39, Samuelsson has a resume that most chefs can only dream of. A graduate of the Culinary Institute in Gothenburg, Sweden, he was hired as Aquavit's executive chef in 1995 and three months later got a three-star review from the New York Times. He received the James Beard Foundation Award for "Rising Star Chef" in 1999 and was named "Best Chef, New York" in 2003. Samuelsson is the author of four cookbooks, most recently "New American Table." Samuelsson was too busy fixing dinner on Tuesday to do interviews. But he said in a statement: "As a new American, it is particularly humbling to be part of the exciting and progressive direction the White House is pursuing in all things related to our rich diverse culinary heritage." Samuelsson worked with White House executive chef Cristeta Comerford on the meal. The desserts - including pumpkin pie tarts and pear tatin - came courtesy of Pastry Chef Bill Yosses and his team. The pears were poached in honey from the White House beehive, and the desserts were garnished with mint and lemon verbena from the garden. From khare at alumni.caltech.edu Tue Nov 24 14:04:18 2009 From: khare at alumni.caltech.edu (Rohit Khare) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:04:18 -0800 Subject: [FoRK] Ethiopian raised in Sweden become US citizen to cook for Indian PM at White House... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <70260CF4-5C3D-4425-B52E-3B33918A4F6E@alumni.caltech.edu> and for the excruciatingly detailed history, down to outfits and, yes, Triscuits: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iffhTFe0t2Njd1qGB8iBFBfXIh5QD9C645QO0 CAPITAL CULTURE: 60 years of US meals for India By DARLENE SUPERVILLE (AP) ? 1 hour ago WASHINGTON ? In the history of U.S.-India relations, there's been plenty of broken bread and even a few crumbled Triscuits. American presidents have entertained India's leaders over fine wine and even finer food for the past 60 years ? at grand White House dinners with hundreds of guests in black-tie, at an intimate Sunday lunch and away from Washington's prying eyes near a storied Civil War battlefield. With his first White House state dinner on Tuesday, President Barack Obama is putting his stamp on the tradition the White House uses to honor foreign leaders. Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is coming for a state visit and all that it entails ? a pomp-filled welcome ceremony that was brought inside the White House because of rainy weather, private time with Obama, a joint news conference and, in the evening, the state dinner, to be held outside for 320 people. First lady Michelle Obama gave an afternoon preview of what's sure to be Washington's hottest social event since the inauguration. Even the smallest details were fraught with symbolism. For her preview appearance, for example, the first lady wore a skirt by Rachel Roy, who is Indian. Guests were to dine at tables for 10 in a huge tent on the South Lawn, its walls decorated with magnolia branches, which are native both to India and the United States. The deep purple flower arrangements were designed to pay homage to the state bird of India, the peacock. The service plates used for the dinner were purchased in the tenure of Dwight Eisenhower, the first president to visit India after its independence. The entertainment lineup was topped by Oscar-winners Jennifer Hudson and A.R. Rahman, two of the top performers from contemporary American and Indian music. Hudson won an Academy Award for her role in "Dreamgirls"; Rahman won two for the music in "Slumdog Millionaire." The first lady brought in award-winning chef Marcus Samuelsson of Aquavit, a Scandinavian restaurant in New York City, to help the White House kitchen staff prepare the largely vegetarian meal. The culinary lineup included potato and egg plant salad, red lentil soup, and roasted potato dumplings or green curry prawns. The basic White House dinner has been tweaked over the years to suit guests, invited and uninvited. A driving rain drove President John F. Kennedy's guests to the East Room, scuttling months of planning for Mozart on the South Lawn for Indian President Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan. With nearly 700 guests in a tent on the lawn, the India state dinner was one of the largest such events of Bill Clinton's presidency. George W. Bush's dinner in 2005 was notable because he held so few overall. Here's a look back at the dinners for Indian leaders, according to news reports. HARRY S. TRUMAN: October 1949: Truman's dinner with Nehru, India's first prime minister, was notable because it wasn't at the White House. The mansion was being repaired and Truman and first lady Bess Truman had decamped to Blair House, the government guest house across the street. Five courses were served at Blair to a smaller-than-usual dinner party, including soup julienne; fillet of sole with tyrolienne sauce; roast turkey with oyster dressing, gravy and cranberry sauce; ginger ale and peach salad, shredded lettuce, French dressing and toasted Triscuits. DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER: December 1956: Instead of a lavish White House dinner, Eisenhower went the low-key route and treated Nehru to a Sunday lunch of oysters on the half shell and roast leg of lamb. They were joined by first lady Mamie Eisenhower and Nehru's daughter, Indira Gandhi, who had accompanied her father. The next day, Nehru and Eisenhower rode together to the president's Gettysburg, Pa., farmhouse for private talks and an overnight stay. JOHN F. KENNEDY: November 1961: At Nehru's request, Kennedy dispensed with the pomp of the customary dinner for dozens and held a smaller, black-tie affair, apparently so the two leaders could continue their talks. Only about 14 people were at the table. June 1963: A state dinner two years later for Radhakrishnan was notable for featuring the first live orchestra performance ever at the White House. Until then, taped music had been used. But Mother Nature dampened the carefully planned entertainment program when a driving rain drove guests inside to the East Room for the finale to Act 1 of Mozart's "The Magic Flute," which had been scheduled for the sprawling South Lawn. Inside, it was standing-room only as guests rubbed shoulders and shouted their "bravos." LYNDON B. JOHNSON: March 1966: Johnson held a dinner for Prime Minister Indira Gandhi the year she assumed the office her father had held for 17 years. Dressed in a traditional sari, she enjoyed a main course of sliced pheasant breast. RICHARD NIXON: November 1971: Five years after Johnson welcomed her, Gandhi was Nixon's guest at the third White House dinner of the week. Seated at an E-shaped table in the State Dining Room, more than 100 guests were served a French-inspired menu of poached dumpling of pike in puff pastry, supreme of pheasant veronique, asparagus in melted butter and, for dessert, praline mousse and petit fours. RONALD REAGAN: July 1982: For the third White House dinner of Gandhi's tenure, Reagan served seafood neptune, lamb wrapped in golden pastry and frozen black cherry bombe, in the State Dining Room. Gandhi wore a sari in raspberry silk; first lady Nancy Reagan matched her in a sari-inspired, one-shoulder, peach chiffon dress with silver trim. Two years later, in October 1984, Gandhi was assassinated by two of her bodyguards. June 1985: Gandhi was succeeded by her son, Rajiv, and he visited Reagan less than a year after his mother was killed. Reagan also treated him to a White House dinner: crab and cucumber mousse, breasts of Cornish hen and chocolate boxes with fruit sorbets and peach champagne sauce. BILL CLINTON: September 2000: Clinton toasted a renewed U.S.-India friendship at the largest dinner of his presidency honoring one person, Indian Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee. Nearly 700 people ate in a tent on the South Lawn, beneath crystal chandeliers at tables decorated with hydrangeas, cream china and gold candles. Their feast included a main course of wild Copper river salmon with red kuri squash and rice bean ragout. Dessert included mango and banner lotus, litchis and raspberry sauce, honey almond squares and chocolate coconut bars. GEORGE W. BUSH: July 2005: Prime Minister Manmohan Singh was the honoree at one of the few gala White House dinners during Bush's presidency. The chef paid tribute to India with chilled asparagus soup and lemon creme, pan-roasted halibut and ginger-carrot butter, and basmati rice with pistachio nuts and currants. Chocolate lotus blossoms and a trio of mango, chocolate-cardamom and cashew ice creams were served for dessert. From bkdelong at pobox.com Wed Nov 25 06:11:18 2009 From: bkdelong at pobox.com (B.K. DeLong) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:11:18 -0500 Subject: [FoRK] Happy Birthday, Rohit! Message-ID: Have a great one! May you have many more... -- B.K. DeLong (K3GRN) bkdelong at pobox.com +1.617.797.8471 http://www.ianetsec.com Work. http://bkdelong.livejournal.com Life. http://www.pmrp.org Play. GPG Key Fingerprint: 5DEEF0ABDACDD937AD08F4AF0E42DFD9081DE7CB From michael at i-magery.com Wed Nov 25 08:13:09 2009 From: michael at i-magery.com (Michael Cummins) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 11:13:09 -0500 Subject: [FoRK] Happy Birthday, Rohit! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <03a901ca6dea$2ddca450$8995ecf0$@com> Happy Birthday! Here's wishing you health, wealth, happiness and many more birthdays :) -- Michael Cummins -----Original Message----- From: fork-bounces at xent.com [mailto:fork-bounces at xent.com] On Behalf Of B.K. DeLong Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 9:11 AM To: Friends of Rohit Khare Subject: [FoRK] Happy Birthday, Rohit! Have a great one! May you have many more... -- B.K. DeLong (K3GRN) bkdelong at pobox.com +1.617.797.8471 http://www.ianetsec.com Work. http://bkdelong.livejournal.com Life. http://www.pmrp.org Play. GPG Key Fingerprint: 5DEEF0ABDACDD937AD08F4AF0E42DFD9081DE7CB _______________________________________________ FoRK mailing list http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork From sdw at lig.net Wed Nov 25 08:19:06 2009 From: sdw at lig.net (Stephen D. Williams) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 08:19:06 -0800 Subject: [FoRK] Happy Birthday, Rohit! In-Reply-To: <03a901ca6dea$2ddca450$8995ecf0$@com> References: <03a901ca6dea$2ddca450$8995ecf0$@com> Message-ID: <4B0D58FA.8030008@lig.net> Happy Birthday Rohit! Stephen Michael Cummins wrote: > Happy Birthday! > > Here's wishing you health, wealth, happiness and many more birthdays :) > > -- Michael Cummins > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fork-bounces at xent.com [mailto:fork-bounces at xent.com] On Behalf Of B.K. > DeLong > Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 9:11 AM > To: Friends of Rohit Khare > Subject: [FoRK] Happy Birthday, Rohit! > > Have a great one! > > May you have many more... > > From jbone at place.org Wed Nov 25 12:33:42 2009 From: jbone at place.org (Jeff Bone) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 14:33:42 -0600 Subject: [FoRK] Happy Birthday, Rohit! Message-ID: You people realize that beyond a certain point, some people don't like to be reminded... Not saying Rohit's at that point or anything. Anyway, have a good one, R! jb From tomhiggins at gmail.com Wed Nov 25 18:02:26 2009 From: tomhiggins at gmail.com (Tom Higgins) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:02:26 -0800 Subject: [FoRK] Happy Birthday, Rohit! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 12:33 PM, Jeff Bone wrote: > > You people realize that beyond a certain point, some people don't like to be > reminded... > I am much more ancient than Rohit and I never turn away a well wish. Happy birthday old man, having fun proving there is creativity and intelligence in the golden years?:)- -tom(me too)higgins From ken_ganshirt at yahoo.ca Wed Nov 25 20:12:51 2009 From: ken_ganshirt at yahoo.ca (Ken Ganshirt @ Yahoo) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 20:12:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [FoRK] Happy Birthday, Rohit! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <167892.38584.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- On Wed, 11/25/09, Tom Higgins wrote: > > I am much more ancient than Rohit and I never? turn > away a well wish. > Women are supposed to be more prone to this sort of vanity. My wife, on the other hand, says she would be quite happy to have a birthday a day ...... as long as there are presents. :) ...ken... __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ From robert.harley at gmail.com Thu Nov 26 09:49:57 2009 From: robert.harley at gmail.com (Rob Harley) Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 12:49:57 -0500 Subject: [FoRK] Happy Birthday, Rohit! Message-ID: >You people realize that beyond a certain point, some people don't like >to be reminded... Hey, I'm hitting exp(5*log(2)) tomorrow... for the 8th time! - RH From holger.krekel at gmail.com Thu Nov 26 10:22:31 2009 From: holger.krekel at gmail.com (Holger Krekel) Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 19:22:31 +0100 Subject: [FoRK] Happy Birthday, Rohit! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 6:49 PM, Rob Harley wrote: >>You people realize that beyond a certain point, some people don't like >>to be reminded... > > Hey, I'm hitting exp(5*log(2)) tomorrow... for the 8th time! Funny, you should say this, happened to me a couple days ago. have fun, holger > - RH > _______________________________________________ > FoRK mailing list > http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork > From whump at mac.com Thu Nov 26 10:29:00 2009 From: whump at mac.com (Bill Humphries) Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 10:29:00 -0800 Subject: [FoRK] Happy Birthday, Rohit! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 25, 2009, at 12:33 PM, Jeff Bone wrote: > > You people realize that beyond a certain point, some people don't like to be reminded... > > Not saying Rohit's at that point or anything. > > Anyway, have a good one, R! Belated birthday greetings to you Rohit! -- whump From ejw at cs.ucsc.edu Fri Nov 27 04:52:46 2009 From: ejw at cs.ucsc.edu (Jim Whitehead) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 13:52:46 +0100 Subject: [FoRK] Slides from talk on future of collaboration in software engineering Message-ID: <4B0FCB9E.1070808@cs.ucsc.edu> I had the good fortune to be invited to the 2009 CHOOSE Forum (http://choose.s-i.ch/events/forum2009) to give a presentation. CHOOSE is the Swiss group for object-oriented systems and environments (http://choose.s-i.ch/). My talk is titled, The Future of Collaborative Software Engineering. Slides are here: http://users.soe.ucsc.edu/~ejw/papers/choose2009-collaboration.pdf Key ideas from the talk: * Collaboration is the mediation of the multiple conflicting mental conceptions held by human software engineers. * We will soon see completely web-based (cloud-based) software development environments (editing, compiling, testing, diagramming, etc.) * Simultaneously, there will also be decentralizing trends (continued use of distributed CM tools) * Assuming we have web-based environments, what possibilities does that open up? - Integration with social networking for software engineers - Ease of allowing non-project members to participate - Rationale capture (argumentation structure) tools These ideas are described further in a chapter in a forthcoming volume of edited papers from Springer that I co-edited with Ivan Mistrik, John Grundy, and Andre van der Hoek: http://www.springer.com/computer/programming/book/978-3-642-10293-6 - Jim From beberg at mithral.com Fri Nov 27 19:58:01 2009 From: beberg at mithral.com (Adam L Beberg) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 19:58:01 -0800 Subject: [FoRK] The circle of life - database edition... Message-ID: <4B109FC9.30505@mithral.com> Because there are never enough stupid ways to reinvent the wheel so you can run over your own foot... http://highscalability.com/blog/2009/11/25/brian-akers-hilarious-nosql-stand-up-routine.html It's sad that an entire generation of computer scientists was trained that the ONLY tool for doing ANYTHING is map reduce (google definition). Garbage in, garbage out... -- Adam L. Beberg http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/ From lucas.gonze at gmail.com Fri Nov 27 22:33:32 2009 From: lucas.gonze at gmail.com (Lucas Gonze) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 22:33:32 -0800 Subject: [FoRK] Slides from talk on future of collaboration in software engineering In-Reply-To: <4B0FCB9E.1070808@cs.ucsc.edu> References: <4B0FCB9E.1070808@cs.ucsc.edu> Message-ID: It's a great topic, Jim. On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 4:52 AM, Jim Whitehead wrote: > I had the good fortune to be invited to the 2009 CHOOSE Forum > (http://choose.s-i.ch/events/forum2009) to give a presentation. CHOOSE is > the Swiss group for object-oriented systems and environments > (http://choose.s-i.ch/). > > My talk is titled, The Future of Collaborative Software Engineering. Slides > are here: > > http://users.soe.ucsc.edu/~ejw/papers/choose2009-collaboration.pdf > > Key ideas from the talk: > * Collaboration is the mediation of the multiple conflicting mental > conceptions held by human software engineers. Can you explain this more? Why would the conflict be with mental models and not real world obstacles, like memory/latency/etc? > * We will soon see completely web-based (cloud-based) software development > environments (editing, compiling, testing, diagramming, etc.) Man, I can't wait. But there's still no ajax emacs. How can I move to the cloud without emacs? I'm somewhat serious about this. I'm thinking of the whole console dev environment, with compiler, editor, and other tools tied together via bash. > * Simultaneously, there will also be decentralizing trends (continued use of > distributed CM tools) > * Assuming we have web-based environments, what possibilities does that open > up? > ?- Integration with social networking for software engineers > ?- Ease of allowing non-project members to participate > ?- Rationale capture (argumentation structure) tools > > These ideas are described further in a chapter in a forthcoming volume of > edited papers from Springer that I co-edited with Ivan Mistrik, John Grundy, > and Andre van der Hoek: > > http://www.springer.com/computer/programming/book/978-3-642-10293-6 > > - Jim > _______________________________________________ > FoRK mailing list > http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork > From nareshov at gmail.com Sat Nov 28 00:52:30 2009 From: nareshov at gmail.com (Naresh V) Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 14:22:30 +0530 Subject: [FoRK] Slides from talk on future of collaboration in software engineering In-Reply-To: References: <4B0FCB9E.1070808@cs.ucsc.edu> Message-ID: 2009/11/28 Lucas Gonze : > >> * We will soon see completely web-based (cloud-based) software development >> environments (editing, compiling, testing, diagramming, etc.) > > Man, I can't wait. But there's still no ajax emacs. ?How can I move to > the cloud without emacs? ?I'm somewhat serious about this. ?I'm > thinking of the whole console dev environment, with compiler, editor, > and other tools tied together via bash. Here's a start - http://www.ymacs.org/ (right?) [Hi. I'm new to this list. I stumbled upon this list after reading that rant on programming languages and subscribed after going through the archives - the discussion on consciousness and the like particularly interested me.] -Naresh V From jamespwalker at gmail.com Sat Nov 28 01:05:25 2009 From: jamespwalker at gmail.com (James Walker) Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 20:05:25 +1100 Subject: [FoRK] Rolltop Message-ID: How's this for design. http://www.youtube.com/watch_ popup?v=7H0K1k54t6A From andrew at ceruleansystems.com Sat Nov 28 12:41:06 2009 From: andrew at ceruleansystems.com (J. Andrew Rogers) Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 12:41:06 -0800 Subject: [FoRK] Database question Message-ID: <13611426-F063-4DBC-B36D-B8ED33368499@ceruleansystems.com> Hi folks, I'm looking for a term of art that may or may not exist. In traditional database systems, you generally have "row-oriented" or "column-oriented" physical models that connote use-case optimization. I'm looking for a physical organization category where the primary access method directly manipulates arbitrary relationships in data sets while materializing neither rows nor columns (nor datums generally) in the process. Someone recently invented the term "correlation-oriented" to denote a type-oriented graph-like system but that appears to be just another flavor of column-oriented at the physical level though it somewhat captures the idea. Conceptually, what I am after is more "holographic" than graph-like; the physical organization is around a reification of relationships rather than datums per se. Perhaps something analogous to "join-oriented" or "aspect-oriented"? This model buys exceptional generalized analytical performance at the price of more expensive record/result materialization. I'm having difficulty finding keywords that turn up anything useful, but presumably direct quasi-connectionist representation systems have been written about in the past. Maybe in long-lost dead-tree database literature? From russell.turpin at gmail.com Sat Nov 28 15:29:47 2009 From: russell.turpin at gmail.com (Russell Turpin) Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 17:29:47 -0600 Subject: [FoRK] Database question In-Reply-To: <13611426-F063-4DBC-B36D-B8ED33368499@ceruleansystems.com> References: <13611426-F063-4DBC-B36D-B8ED33368499@ceruleansystems.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 2:41 PM, J. Andrew Rogers wrote: > I'm looking for a physical organization category where the primary access > method directly manipulates arbitrary relationships in data sets while > materializing neither rows nor columns (nor datums generally) in the > process. ... I've seen the terms binary (assuming the relationships are binary relationships) or functional. From ejw at cs.ucsc.edu Sun Nov 29 00:42:01 2009 From: ejw at cs.ucsc.edu (Jim Whitehead) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 09:42:01 +0100 Subject: [FoRK] Slides from talk on future of collaboration in software engineering In-Reply-To: References: <4B0FCB9E.1070808@cs.ucsc.edu> Message-ID: <4B1233D9.8030903@cs.ucsc.edu> Lucas, The Bespin editor is pretty far along in exploring what a completely web-based editor would look like. https://bespin.mozilla.com/ For web-based compilation and test, the Hudson tool, working with Maven, is very powerful. http://hudson-ci.org/ http://maven.apache.org/ (The idea being you don't initiate compiles via the console, but rather via a web-based interface). For web-based diagramming (UML, for example), there is the Gliffy editor: http://www.gliffy.com/ For web-based requirements, there is eRequirements: http://www.erequirements.com/app I might humbly suggest that WebDAV could be used to provide a remote, filesystem-like view across all of the artifacts in a web-based software development environment. So far, existing players are not doing a great job of exposing your data via open interfaces like WebDAV (there is definitely a risk that this becomes another example of data-hostage computing). - Jim Naresh V wrote: > 2009/11/28 Lucas Gonze : > >>> * We will soon see completely web-based (cloud-based) software development >>> environments (editing, compiling, testing, diagramming, etc.) >>> >> Man, I can't wait. But there's still no ajax emacs. How can I move to >> the cloud without emacs? I'm somewhat serious about this. I'm >> thinking of the whole console dev environment, with compiler, editor, >> and other tools tied together via bash. >> > > Here's a start - http://www.ymacs.org/ > (right?) > > [Hi. I'm new to this list. I stumbled upon this list after reading > that rant on programming languages and subscribed after going through > the archives - the discussion on consciousness and the like > particularly interested me.] > > -Naresh V > > _______________________________________________ > FoRK mailing list > http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork > From ejw at cs.ucsc.edu Sun Nov 29 00:51:05 2009 From: ejw at cs.ucsc.edu (Jim Whitehead) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 09:51:05 +0100 Subject: [FoRK] Slides from talk on future of collaboration in software engineering In-Reply-To: References: <4B0FCB9E.1070808@cs.ucsc.edu> Message-ID: <4B1235F9.70903@cs.ucsc.edu> > Can you explain this more? Why would the conflict be with mental > models and not real world obstacles, like memory/latency/etc? > Real-world limitations of humans, including limited working memory, is one of the drivers for collaboration. Because we are so slow and error-prone at doing work at high levels of abstraction (like programming), we need to work with others to make software of any substantial size. In this "mediating mental conflict" model, I was searching for a model of collaboration that could explain both cooperative collaboration (e.g., developers writing a particular subsystem together) and competitive collaboration (designers competing to see whose architecture will be implemented). As well, people inevitably have differing conceptions of the software system being constructed, in large part because their viewpoints are shaping the system as they seek to understand the system. As a result, there is an ongoing need to have people talk to one another, to make sure their different views of the system are more-or-less in synch. I note that there is a whole side of collaboration that involves structuring the organization performing the work, determining reward structures, monitoring work progress, etc. that is very important, and tends to fall under the umbrella of managerial concerns. Here, mediating differing mental conceptions isn't as big of a driver of activity. - Jim From ken_ganshirt at yahoo.ca Sun Nov 29 09:46:12 2009 From: ken_ganshirt at yahoo.ca (Ken Ganshirt @ Yahoo) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 09:46:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [FoRK] Slides from talk on future of collaboration in software engineering In-Reply-To: <4B1235F9.70903@cs.ucsc.edu> Message-ID: <991494.47114.qm@web33001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- On Sun, 11/29/09, Jim Whitehead wrote: > > > Can you explain this more?? Why would the conflict be with mental > > models and not real world obstacles, like memory/latency/etc? > >??? > > I note that there is a whole side of collaboration that > involves structuring the organization performing the work, > determining reward structures, monitoring work progress, > etc. that is very important, and tends to fall under the > umbrella of managerial concerns. Here, mediating differing > mental conceptions isn't as big of a driver of activity. > Hey Jim, I was with you right up to that last sentence. In fact it's probably at least as big a driver of activity. Why do you think developers have such a difficult time understanding the requirements of a system (putting aside, for the moment, the fact they generally don't have a clue about the business they're doing the development for)? It's because the potential users of the new system give them such differing descriptions about what the system has to do and the relative importance of the various functions. And it's very nearly impossible to find anyone who can give you a holistic view of how it all has to fit together. It's bad enough if you are trying to design and develop a system that simply improves on the status quo incrementally. It's a nightmare if you're trying to design and develop something that will allow the organization to do something it has never done before, or does something in a way that is fundamentally different than previously. And then someone has to figure out how to transition from the present way of doing things to the new way of doing things. Developing the transition strategy and tools, in my experience, can, and should, consume as much attention and energy as designing and developing the final system. At least it does in those few projects that are really successful. It has been my experience that cranking the code is invariably the simplest part, regardless the size and complexity of the project. Trying to make major and fundamental change in meat-based systems is much more difficult. It's much simpler to get bits all lined up and dancing in unison than it is people. Not least because the bits will generally keep doing it, ad infinitum, unless you do something stupid to mess them up. People, on the other hand, need some sort of coercion to get lined up and continuing coercion to stay that way. Sometimes even the best of coercion fails for a whole variety of predictable but unpreventable reasons. ...ken... __________________________________________________________________ The new Internet Explorer? 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ From marty at halvorson.us Sun Nov 29 13:55:08 2009 From: marty at halvorson.us (Marty Halvorson) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 14:55:08 -0700 Subject: [FoRK] Slides from talk on future of collaboration in, software engineering Message-ID: <4B12EDBC.7000401@halvorson.us> Ken Ganshirt wrote: > It has been my experience that cranking the code is invariably the > simplest part, regardless the size and complexity of the project. > Trying to make major and fundamental change in meat-based systems is > much more difficult. This is especially true when the users in question are all low level bureaucrats. In a case I'm very familiar with, the users were all court clerks and lawyers (or their law clerks). We were switching from a paper based court filing system to an all electronic over the Internet system. The complaints were simply astounding. We finally got the Chief Judge to issue an edict to all the lawyers and court clerks that "This was how filings were going to happen." One interesting result of the conversion was increased happiness on the part of the lawyers. Since the electronic system time stamped every filing, including those filed after the court closed, filing deadlines were easier to meet, and courier costs were mostly eliminated. Peace, Marty Halvorson From andrew at ceruleansystems.com Sun Nov 29 15:22:02 2009 From: andrew at ceruleansystems.com (J. Andrew Rogers) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 15:22:02 -0800 Subject: [FoRK] Database question In-Reply-To: References: <13611426-F063-4DBC-B36D-B8ED33368499@ceruleansystems.com> Message-ID: <4DA11267-8057-4067-BE79-62B14B2B5CF7@ceruleansystems.com> On Nov 28, 2009, at 3:29 PM, Russell Turpin wrote: > On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 2:41 PM, J. Andrew Rogers > wrote: >> I'm looking for a physical organization category where the primary access >> method directly manipulates arbitrary relationships in data sets while >> materializing neither rows nor columns (nor datums generally) in the >> process. ... > > I've seen the terms binary (assuming the relationships are binary > relationships) > or functional. It could be visualized a bit like a Fourier transform between the value domain and the relationship domain, so complex ordering and distance relationships may be exposed for a single record. I suppose 'functional' might work. This came up very recently in a discussion and has been bugging me. I can't even think of a good ad hoc description. :-) From aaron at bavariati.org Sun Nov 29 15:33:49 2009 From: aaron at bavariati.org (Aaron Burt) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 15:33:49 -0800 Subject: [FoRK] The circle of life - database edition... In-Reply-To: <4B109FC9.30505@mithral.com> References: <4B109FC9.30505@mithral.com> Message-ID: <20091129233349.GC11941@aaron-x31> On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 07:58:01PM -0800, Adam L Beberg wrote: > Because there are never enough stupid ways to reinvent the wheel so > you can run over your own foot... > > http://highscalability.com/blog/2009/11/25/brian-akers-hilarious-nosql-stand-up-routine.html I was there - that was a fun talk (and the whole thing was great.) The satire was *very* pointed, and I'd say the point was the evergreen "pick the right tool for the job." The SQL vs. NoSQL panel was worth the price of admission. (As one of the few ops people present, I would add: when in doubt, choose the most mature and common tool that's up to the task. If you're gonna hammer a nail with a screwdriver, at least use an old heavy screwdriver.) Eugen might have liked it there - much of the interesting bits were about eventual consistentcy and other distributed data-processing issues. From nornagon at gmail.com Sun Nov 29 20:54:46 2009 From: nornagon at gmail.com (Jeremy Apthorp) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:54:46 +1100 Subject: [FoRK] Rolltop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <14d615330911292054m27119803nc3574715082ec39@mail.gmail.com> beautiful, but somehow I doubt that it's possible to get the display that smooth... j 2009/11/28 James Walker > How's this for design. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch_< > http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=7H0K1k54t6A> > popup?v=7H0K1k54t6A > _______________________________________________ > FoRK mailing list > http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork >