[FoRK] Chart of the Day...

Ken Ganshirt @ Yahoo ken_ganshirt at yahoo.ca
Thu Jun 10 20:09:31 PDT 2010

--- On Thu, 6/10/10, Sean Conner <sean at conman.org> wrote:

> It was thus said that the Great Ken
> Ganshirt @ Yahoo once stated:
> > 
> > Finally, the issue of scams and ponzi schemes. I've
> asked twice now why
> > someone thinks pension plans in general are scans or
> ponzi schemes, with
> > no response yet. I've described a defined-benefit
> pension plan that I
> > don't believe to be either a ponzi scheme or a scam.
> If you can't or won't
> > explain your claim in the general case, at least
> please explain why you
> > think this example is either a scam on someone or a
> ponzi scheme. ?????
>   I think it comes down to running the numbers.
>   In 2009, GM [1] had 244,500 employees.  I can't
> seem to locate the number
> of people receiving a GM pension, but I did see that in
> 2008, GM announced
> it was dropping 100,000 pensioners off it's payroll, which
> is nearly half
> the number of current employees.  So, assuming that in
> 2008, GM had around
> 240,000 employees, then they were really sending checks to
> at least 340,000
> people (and I'm willing bet the number is higher), a good
> third of which
> don't even contribute to the company's bottom line.
>   So maybe not a Ponzi scheme in the technical sense,
> the certainly
> unsustainable over the long haul (and GM has been around
> for a long time
> now).  
> > Related to that, I'm truly baffled why anyone would
> think a
> > defined-contribution plan is a scam on anyone or a
> ponzi scheme, so long
> > as the funds - real money - are placed in the hands of
> a third party to
> > manage so they will actually be available to the plan
> participants when
> > they claim them.
>   Depends on if you think investments are a form of
> gambling.  Given some of
> the recent financial shinnanigans, I would trust a casino
> more than I would
> most banks!
> > Or am I missing something?? Please be a lot more
> specific.
>   So what happened to Greece?  Government run
> Ponzi scheme?  Or just a
> dismal return on falling demographics?
>   -spc (i.e. birth rate in Greece falling below
> replacement levels)

When a gun is used in the robbing of a store, does that make the gun bad? Or is it more likely the person who chose to do the robbery that is the bad element in the equation?


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