[FoRK] Apple collecting, sharing iPhone users' precise locations

Ken Ganshirt @ Yahoo ken_ganshirt at yahoo.ca
Mon Jun 21 23:14:40 PDT 2010

--- On Tue, 6/22/10, Jeremy Apthorp <nornagon at nornagon.net> wrote:

> >
> > - Secrecy demands privacy.
> >
> > - The need for secrecy is part of the human
> condition.
> >
> > - It's easiest to illustrate this through prurient
> examples, e.g. secret assignations (screwing your
> neighbour's wife or daughter), embezzling from your business
> partner or employer, et many ceteras.
> >
> > - There may also be pure motives for wanting privacy.
> I will even stipulate that there are. But examples of
> prurient human motives are easier to illustrate my point
> with because everyone understands them and nobody questions
> their existance. The current evidence bombards us
> constantly. The historical record is full to bursting with
> them. Including the bible and perhaps even older tomes.
> >
> > So, Yes, privacy is necessary. The human condition
> demands it. How much is necessary? Well, I already answered
> that one.
> Ah, I see what you mean now, but I don't understand.
> You're saying privacy is fundamentally important because it's
> fundamentally important to us that we be able to screw people over in
> secret? I don't believe that to be the case.

No, you just said that. I didn't.

I simply said prurient motives are some reasons why privacy matters to some people. 

That would seem sufficient to establish that it does and did matter.

You asked if privacy matters. Well, actually, you asked why it *didn't* matter to people before the mid-1700s. I don't recall you saying "fundamentally important" or any other timeframe, but whatever.... 

Wanting to avoid getting caught doing something that might be severely punishable seems pretty "fundamental" to me.

I offer at least one class of examples which illustrates specifically that privacy matters. Matters now and mattered long before the mid-1700s.

Why don't you believe that to be the case? Are you saying none of that ever happened/happens? Or that if it happened/happens, privacy was/is of no import to those involved? 


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