[FoRK] Extreme Life Extension: Investing in Cryonics for the Long, Long Term

Eugen Leitl eugen at leitl.org
Tue Jun 22 04:28:03 PDT 2010

On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 12:28:47AM -0700, John Parsons wrote:

> This is even tougher to imagine from a societal perspective. 

Of course it's tough to imagine -- such socities are outside
of the scope we're familiar with. A world some 80+ years 
hence has seen far more change than the last century -- because
that's what it takes to make cryonics work.

> Unlike cloning, in which only the genetics are identical (e.g. 
> identical twins), this discussion is speculating on a copied 

There's less speculation involved that people seem to think.
In fact, any IT literate person should be capable to figure it
out in minutes. High availability (synchronization, failover,
split-brain prevention) are all decade old technologies in
use today. 

> entity where the consciousness, personality, etc. is also 
> identical (at least at the time of the copy). Also, if one 

That assumes the copy is nondestructive. 

> copy is possible, what's to stop multiple simultaneous 
> copies? Leaving aside the negative implications of 

What is the problem with copies? There's no law against
identical twins, is it. Only in this case, you get
an adult identical twin, and have to split up your belongings.

> over-population for a moment, how would multiple copies 
> be organized socially (e.g. human rights, voting, 
> reproductive rights, etc.)?

The same way the law treats identical twins. Only, plus
adult plus possession split.
> Of course, there *is* the issue of overpopulation, and 

Space is pretty big, and you're a coke can in the sky.

> it might be awkward denying reproductive rights to 
> average folk so a privileged individual can over-populate 
> themselves for whatever reason.

How perfectly boring.  
> The whole concept of wanting to cheat or deny death can 
> already come across as somewhat narcissistic, even 

Hey, using modern medicine is totally narcisstic. I'm
completely missing the child/mother mortality of the 
neolithic, as well as luxuries such as antibiotics or
surgery. People seem to forget that life is only about
suffering. It's not life, unless it's nasty, brutish,
and short. 

> without the complication of extra copies. 

There are no complications. It's pretty straightforward
if you think about it for a moment.

> Better to stick to one consciousness at a time, methinks.

Make me.
> A lot of seniors that I have known over the years are a 
> lot more comfortable with the idea of death, and I suggest 

If they're so comfortable, why don't they commit suicide?
It's the altruistic thing to do.

> that wanting to live forever is more of a middle-aged 
> man's dream. Of course, this could be a side effect of 
> more closely facing what is now an inevitable consequence, 

*Now* you're talking.

> but the market of would-be Lazaruses (Lazari?) may be 
> smaller than expected, despite having the capability. 

Ha ha ha. Yeah, right. This is exactly why belief
systems who promise all the goodies (but can't deliver)
are ailing. 

> All this pre-supposes that the future will be a better 
> place/time than today. As a senior myself, I no longer 
> have that particular conviction.

If the future sucks, it's because we made it so. It should
be our duty to fix what we screwed up.
> I agree with Ken that "replacing the planks" seems a 
> more feasible approach to uber-longevity, but by the 

Not feasible. Not in absence of medical nanotechnology.
What, exactly is wrong with arranging to have your head

> same token, the human race (and it's attendant societies) 
> stays alive and renews itself; through the death of individual cells.
> As for cryonics, I fail to see the incentive for future 
> generations to revive today's icicles. There would be 

That's a FAQ.

> a phase where it would be done to prove-in the technology, 
> but being a strictly front-loaded business, there's no 
> additional profit to be made by thawing the majority, 
> especially if they were mostly over-privileged, narcissistic, 
> selfish, misguided malcontents? ;-D

It's remarkable how people who know about the industry the
least are the most vocal.

Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org
ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE

More information about the FoRK mailing list