[FoRK] Extreme Life Extension: Investing in Cryonics for the Long, Long Term

Eugen Leitl eugen at leitl.org
Wed Jun 23 02:35:04 PDT 2010

On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 12:29:27AM -0700, John Parsons wrote:

> Fine, you guys can have your multiple simultaneous copies, 
> but then we're no longer talking about prolonging an individual 

Yes, unsynchronized copies do not prolong an individual life
(unless you fuse them, creating a hybrid person, with a memory
of two or more histories).

Synchronized copies (master-slave) are key components for
a hot spare/backup. You'll probably need a pretty fat pipe,
especially assuming that your operation rate is 10^6
or more faster.

> life, we're talking about reproduction, and that will have a 
> different impact on the host society than mere longevity.

Of course easy ability to fork off instances (and being able to
reabsorb them) would result in a considerably different world. 
> At its core, human reproduction is a form of competition. 
> This concept of asexual reproduction, is absent the validating 
> influence of perceived fitness to a mate, and the eugenic 

You have to be able to afford resources, and in case of
wars you definitely have a very harsh fitness function at 

> implications in this form of "competition" should be obvious.
> (Not that I think eugenics is necessarily a bad thing, but we should be open about it) ;-)
> > How perfectly boring.  
> Presumably this service will cost something, and not 
> everyone will be able to afford it (at least not 
> multiple copies). That makes it elitist reproduction 
> based on means or entitlement, rather than a more valid 
> measure of fitness. Don't expect everyone in society to embrace that concept.

There's a considerable difference in medical care available
to an uninsured person, and someone with a net personal
worth of multiple MUSD.
> > > Better to stick to one consciousness at a time,
> > methinks.
> > 
> > Make me.
> [Yes, yes, I'm sure your copies will be able to beat my copies] ;-)

It's not not very enforcible. Particularly, since the technology
for migrating cognition to alternative substrates makes space your
> It *should* have been our duty (I suggest it was) to keep it 
> from getting screwed up in the first place. By analogy, does 
> this mean you want Wall Street to fix the monetary crisis? ;-)

I'd expect orderly trials and quite a few convictions, and readjustment
of value perceptions.
> Sorry if my attempt at light conversation was too flippant or 
> insulting to practitioners of cryonics... I'm sure they are serious 
> and earnest people, and would honor any contracts made. The remark 
> probably reflected more to my general aversion of paying up front for contractors.

You don't, actually. There are membership fees, but the suspension
is funded via insurance.
> You have swayed me into thinking that cryonics is a more 
> valid approach in the near term (like for me, for instance), 
> for a longer life, over "replacing planks". However, while 
> it indeed seems rational to want to live longer, I still 
> submit that it can also be rational to not want to live forever.

I have no fundamental beef with that. I personally don't have a contract,
for various reasons.

Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org
ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE

More information about the FoRK mailing list