[FoRK] The bee sting theory of poverty

Stephen D. Williams sdw at lig.net
Mon Jun 28 21:02:14 PDT 2010

On 6/28/10 8:20 PM, Russell Turpin wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 9:52 PM, Stephen D. Williams<sdw at lig.net>  wrote:
>>> Until you start attempting to define baseline or come up with practical
>>> mechanisms, then it becomes nonsense.
> Jeff Bone:
>> Seems like these should be a good start:
>>    * Clean, safe,&  functional living space
>>    * Food
>>    * Basic business and exercise acceptable clothing
>>    * Health care
>>    * An education past high school
>>    * Internet
>>    * Outdoor play / exercise space (parks, trails, sidewalks)
> Jeff has it completely right, here. There are at least two baselines

Can't tell what email reader you're using, however my inline posting, 
which is very clear with Thunderbird, seems to have confused your 
attribution on that (I wrote it).  I know that MS Outlook doesn't honor 
the HTML that Thunderbird uses to indicate quoting, although my FoRK 
posting is all plain text I think.

> with respect to the question of thinking rationally. The first is a
> matter of human physiology. Someone who is too cold, too weary, too
> hungry, or too diseased will be impaired in their thinking. If you
> doubt this, it's because you don't have much experience with those
> states.

> The second baseline is social. Someone who can't effectively interact
> with others in their own society is cut off in a very basic way.
> "Rationality" requires being able to listen to what others say, and
> getting others to hear you.

I think this falls into social and mental health, mostly neglected or 
even actively abused in many cases right now.
If the home / micro-local culture tends not to teach or value those 
skills and acceptable interactions, it raises a big hurdle.  There ought 
to be ways, in addition to paths like learning social graces in the 
military (!), to recognizing and addressing these gaps.

> One politician who doesn't understand this is Rand Paul:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkumBcWAlrM
> About 3:31 he says this: "It's hard for me to even fathom the
> government would come and say that your child would have rights that
> would supercede the rights of the adult." Well, fuck that. If you
> don't feed, shelter, refrain from abusing, and minimally educate your
> children, then child protective services should intervene. Children
> are not property. Someone who doesn't understand that shouldn't run

Agreed.  There should be a well-defined minimally complete academic, 
social, and mental education.

> for dog catcher. (Even dogs, which are property, are due some minimal
> care from their owners.)
> And at the start of that video, Paul demurs in answering how old the
> earth is. At an alleged EDUCATION conference.
> Paul gets my batshit crazy medal for the day. The criteria are
> gender-neutral. ;-)


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