[FoRK] The bee sting theory of poverty

Stephen D. Williams sdw at lig.net
Mon Jun 28 21:02:14 PDT 2010


On 6/28/10 8:20 PM, Russell Turpin wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 9:52 PM, Stephen D. Williams<sdw at lig.net>  wrote:
>    
>>> Until you start attempting to define baseline or come up with practical
>>> mechanisms, then it becomes nonsense.
>>>        
> Jeff Bone:
>    
>> Seems like these should be a good start:
>>
>>    * Clean, safe,&  functional living space
>>    * Food
>>    * Basic business and exercise acceptable clothing
>>    * Health care
>>    * An education past high school
>>    * Internet
>>    * Outdoor play / exercise space (parks, trails, sidewalks)
>>      
> Jeff has it completely right, here. There are at least two baselines
>    

Can't tell what email reader you're using, however my inline posting, 
which is very clear with Thunderbird, seems to have confused your 
attribution on that (I wrote it).  I know that MS Outlook doesn't honor 
the HTML that Thunderbird uses to indicate quoting, although my FoRK 
posting is all plain text I think.

> with respect to the question of thinking rationally. The first is a
> matter of human physiology. Someone who is too cold, too weary, too
> hungry, or too diseased will be impaired in their thinking. If you
> doubt this, it's because you don't have much experience with those
> states.
>    

Exactly.
> The second baseline is social. Someone who can't effectively interact
> with others in their own society is cut off in a very basic way.
> "Rationality" requires being able to listen to what others say, and
> getting others to hear you.
>    

I think this falls into social and mental health, mostly neglected or 
even actively abused in many cases right now.
If the home / micro-local culture tends not to teach or value those 
skills and acceptable interactions, it raises a big hurdle.  There ought 
to be ways, in addition to paths like learning social graces in the 
military (!), to recognizing and addressing these gaps.

> One politician who doesn't understand this is Rand Paul:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkumBcWAlrM
>
> About 3:31 he says this: "It's hard for me to even fathom the
> government would come and say that your child would have rights that
> would supercede the rights of the adult." Well, fuck that. If you
> don't feed, shelter, refrain from abusing, and minimally educate your
> children, then child protective services should intervene. Children
> are not property. Someone who doesn't understand that shouldn't run
>    

Agreed.  There should be a well-defined minimally complete academic, 
social, and mental education.

> for dog catcher. (Even dogs, which are property, are due some minimal
> care from their owners.)
>
> And at the start of that video, Paul demurs in answering how old the
> earth is. At an alleged EDUCATION conference.
>
> Paul gets my batshit crazy medal for the day. The criteria are
> gender-neutral. ;-)
>
>    

sdw



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