[FoRK] Fwd: Radical Honesty

Joe Barrera joe-ml at barrera.org
Mon Jan 2 22:31:24 PST 2012


Didn't see this end up in the archives, so resending... apologies if
you've see this before.


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Joe Barrera <j3 at barrera.org>
Date: Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: [FoRK] Radical Honesty
To: Friends of Rohit Khare <fork at xent.com>


On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 10:19 PM, Stephen Williams <sdw at lig.net> wrote:
> I've sort of run across it before, but hadn't found the full dose before.
> Doesn't seem like I hold back too much.  (Hopefully I'll get time to write
> up my discussion with the assigned officer for my complaint before my trip.
>  He made a surprisingly clear admission.)

And here I thought "Radical Honesty" was something made up for the show Bones.

As for the Radical Honesty "founder", seems like it's more like an
excuse to be a drunken jerk than anything else. Which works if you're
all financially set and don't have to give a damn. Probably works less
well in other situations.

I heard Paul Ekman (the microexpression guy) describe his approach,
which seems more admirable, which is to simply not lie, where a lie is
defined by

 I thing a better approach is one Paul Ekman described on RadioLab...
which is simply to not lie... where a lie is defined as a deliberate
deception without any prior notification of intent to deceive. I can't
find a transcript for that show ("Deception") but a different
transcript (http://www.sevencounties.org/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=30709)
covers the same ground:

Paul Ekman: [...] My focus first was to try to distinguish lies from
other forms of deceit, and there are two criteria. One is it has to be
a deliberate choice to mislead. [...] And the second is there's no
notification [...] And in some spheres of life, like selling your
house, there is notification: nobody has to believe that the selling
price is the asking price. So you can't lie. You try to mislead the
person, so it's deceptive, but there's no notification. In a witness's
testimony, they are told they are to tell the whole truth and nothing
but the truth, and if they don't and they can be proven, that's
perjury. In poker, you can't win if you don't bluff, but nobody says
to the bluffer, "Oh, you lied," because you're notified ahead of time.

- Joe (bracing myself for the 14 out-of-town notifications from sykadul)



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