[FoRK] divegeek/uscode · GitHub

Lucas Gonze lucas.gonze at gmail.com
Tue May 29 11:45:49 PDT 2012


The problem isn't printing, it's that politics is messy and ugly.


On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 11:31 AM, Gary Stock <gstock at nexcerpt.com> wrote:
> Yes about disruptive clowns!  And no, they can't be stopped.  But we needn't
> give them better, more versatile ammunition.
>
> My point was that an out-of-date law can become a similarly stupid weapon.
>  If any version (or any draft, or any markup...), from any point in time, no
> matter how brief, is made available just as printable (and legible, thus
> perhaps credible) as the law now in force, we will be swamped by even more
> clowns, each with a bigger posse.
>
> Some amazing things -- from the worst to the best -- have been proposed as
> statute or amendment, but held that status only briefly.  It's one thing to
> spread a rumor that XYZ may be legal.  It's quite another to hand out
> officially formatted legislative documents (which may have only had merit
> for one day, and been rejected soundly the next).
>
> Smart people can manufacture misleading crap to back ~any~ agenda.  I'd
> prefer not to provide stupid people more official-looking do-it-yourself
> assistance...
>
> GS
>
>
>
>
> On 5/28/12 5:00 PM, Ken Ganshirt @ Yahoo wrote:
>>
>> I sympathize with the anecdote and understand that sort of thing is not
>> rare.  But exactly how will your suggestions for watermarking, etc., prevent
>> or even minimize that sort of lunacy?  E.g. showing him the hard evidence of
>> subsequent decisions didn't even slow him down.
>>
>> Your suggestion is worthwhile for understanding what is current, for those
>> who wish to.  But it won't deter the clowns like in your anecdote.  For them
>> it's not about the law; it's about the disruption.
>>
>>         ...ken...
>>
>>
>> --- On Mon, 5/28/12, Gary Stock<gstock at nexcerpt.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> From: Gary Stock<gstock at nexcerpt.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [FoRK] divegeek/uscode · GitHub
>>> To: "Friends of Rohit Khare"<fork at xent.com>
>>> Received: Monday, May 28, 2012, 10:59 AM
>>>
>>> The first and most important goal for /uscode:  ALWAYS
>>> force a large
>>> "NOT CURRENT" watermark (as unavoidable and undefeatable as
>>> possible)
>>> beneath  -- and multiple datestamps on (all four
>>> corners of) -- any
>>> display object that is not ~purely~ current statute, now in
>>> force.
>>>
>>> I have been watching a local township disintegrate
>>> politically over the
>>> past several months, because one idiot with a grudge found a
>>> 30-year old
>>> Attorney General opinion that once (long ago) could have
>>> been
>>> interpreted to mean elected officials were in violation of
>>> State law.
>>>
>>> I personally pointed him to later AG opinions ~reversing~
>>> that finding,
>>> as well as legislative action explicitly making such
>>> activities legal.
>>>
>>> Still, he clings to the notion that -- since he can print
>>> out a 30-year
>>> old ruling that the activity "is impermissible" -- he has
>>> the law on his
>>> side.  And, every few days, he convinces one more idiot
>>> that it's
>>> somehow still true...
>>>
>>> GS
>>>
>>> On 5/27/12 7:49 PM, Damien Morton wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Often laws are constructed as deltas to earlier laws.
>>>
>>> e.g. section xxxx
>>>>
>>>> supercedes section yyyy, or section xxxx alters section
>>>
>>> yyyyy by removing
>>>>
>>>> paragraph A and replacing it with paragraph B.
>>>>
>>>> It would be good to have unified flattened and
>>>
>>> flattened text which
>>>>
>>>> represents the law as-is.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps a legal microformat for deltas is called for.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 7:37 PM, Stephen D.
>>>
>>> Williams<sdw at lig.net>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Awesome.  The US Congressional bills / laws
>>>
>>> site, last I looked a year or
>>>>>
>>>>> two ago, was a terrible web app example: An opaque
>>>
>>> database search with no
>>>>>
>>>>> way to link to a specific law or version of a law.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is far, far better.  Every law and bill
>>>
>>> at all levels of government
>>>>>
>>>>> should be in this.
>>>>>
>>>>> And it would be good to encode laws in increasing
>>>
>>> levels of metadata and
>>>>>
>>>>> modeling so that you could at least find every law
>>>
>>> pertaining to a subject
>>>>>
>>>>> combination.
>>>>>
>>>>> sdw
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/25/12 2:05 PM, Jeff Bone wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Apologies for the naked link.
>>>
>>> Comments:  English is a shitty programming
>>>>>>
>>>>>> language, USC is a bug-ridden behemoth legacy
>>>
>>> system, and much of the
>>>>>>
>>>>>> action happens elsewhere anyway (e.g.,
>>>
>>> regulatory apparatus etc.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That said this is a powerful idea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Taken one step further - laws to be encoded in
>>>
>>> executable descriptions
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (say, arbitrarily, cf financial instruments /
>>>
>>> contracts, Python) and you'd
>>>>>>
>>>>>> have real transformative change.
>>>
>>> Profiling, bug elimination, absurd
>>>>>>
>>>>>> complexity reduction through refactoring, open
>>>
>>> source the whole project w
>>>>>>
>>>>>> legislators and their dev staffs responsible
>>>
>>> for pulling changes into trunk
>>>>>>
>>>>>> based on voting, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What are the (fucking!) domain objects,
>>>
>>> Kenneth?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pipe dream, sure.  Model for replacement
>>>
>>> when the system finally breaks
>>>>>>
>>>>>> completely...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> jb
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 25, 2012, at 15:56, Jeff Bone<jbone at place.org>    wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  https://github.com/divegeek/**uscode<https://github.com/divegeek/uscode>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>> FoRK mailing list
>>>>>
>>>>> http://xent.com/mailman/**listinfo/fork<http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> FoRK mailing list
>>>> http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> FoRK mailing list
>>> http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork
>>>
> _______________________________________________
> FoRK mailing list
> http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork



More information about the FoRK mailing list