[FoRK] [New_Cryonet] Price for a vital signs monitor

m2darwin at aol.com m2darwin at aol.com
Fri Jun 1 14:44:19 PDT 2012

In a message dated 5/31/2012 6:04:57 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
fretho at gmail.com writes:


On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 5:23 PM, <_m2darwin at aol.com_ 
(mailto:m2darwin at aol.com) > wrote:

As to the size of the market, that's easy to estimate;  it's microscopic. 
Deanimation alert devices are to cryonicists what healthy  food is to people 
who use vending machines. Ask anyone if they would like to  see healthy food 
in vending machines and they will almost all say, "Yes, I'd  love to see 
healthy food in vending machines!" And they are telling you the  truth: they 
would love to see healthy food in vending machines, they  just don't want to 
BUY any of  it.

Why  exactly should individuals be making this decision? Why not just 
require all  members to wear one otherwise they lose their membership and/or have 
to pay a  sufficiently hefty fee to keep it. As for purchase cost, send it 
to them  gratis and factor it into the cost of their membership. This 
totally shouldn't  need to be marketed to individual cryonicists.

Well, you know fretho, the problem is that  even members who have plain old 
metal bracelets and neck tags DON'T WEAR  THEM!* This is simply 
UNACCEPTABLE! So, I propose we extend your  suggestion to IMPLANTING the units in all 
new members, whether  they like the idea, or not. After all, a good grade of 
silicone caulk is almost  as pure as the medical grade silicone "adhesive" 
that Dow-Corning used to make  (before the FDA banned its sale). Once the 
basic monitor is cobbled together, we  can wrap it in multiple layers of 
silicone caulk and rip-stop nylon fabric, wait  for it to cure, sterilize it in 
Cidex, and then implant one in each member, old  or new. 
But wait, we're really not doing all we  could, or should do. With just a 
little bit of trivial extra engineering we  could add a medications bladder, 
a small battery powered pump, and a catheter  which could be tunneled under 
the skin to the external jugular and then threaded  into the superior vena 
cava. It's really a simple surgery - it can be done under  local anesthesia 
with just a tad bit of conscious sdedation; in fact you can use  propofol for 
the conscious sedation! It is isn't even a controlled drug! 
With the added feature of the drug bladder  and pump, it will be possible 
to administer melatonin, PBN, CoQ10, a really  effective group of 
anticoagulent,  antiplatelet and anti-aggregation drugs,  as well as a couple of drugs 
that are "hypothermia-mimetics," to acutely reduce  the metabolic rate in 
the absence of cooling until the cryo-team can get  there.
Hmmm, and while we are at it, why not build  in an internal automatic 
defibrillator (IAD), as well. I mean, the technology  for IADs is very 
straightforward and the circuit, well, the circuit is  ridiculously simple. Any fool 
could build that circuit.
A good vet should be able to teach the  average cryonicist-volunteer how to 
implant one of these things in a one-day  workshop. An added advantage is 
that the cryonics organizations will make a 25%  profit on each implantation 
kit sold, and the distributors/implanters will get a  $1,000 bonus for each 
member they implant one in! 
But the best, the very best thing in all of  this is that because it is 
cryonics, and not real  medicine, we won't even have to have FDA approval! 
Incredible! One would almost  think it was too good to be true!
Finally, you know, fretho, whoever you  really are, every once in awhile I 
forget why cryonics has fared so poorly over  the past 5 decades, but then, 
I see a post like yours, and it all comes back to  me. STUPID coercive ideas 
that are as clueless as they are cruel and costly in  their ultimate 
effects - were they to be implemented - have to be part of the  reason (and more 
so the kind of people who think of, and seriously propose  them). And every 
once in awhile, just such an idea is, in fact,  implemented. 
But the real problem isn't so much that  this idea was proposed, but that 
no one, especially no one from any of the  cryonics organizations, pointed 
out that such an idea is COERCIVE, that the  putative technology is not even 
adequately developed, and that it would raise  costs for cryonics services 
substantially. It also fails to take into account  that, for the people most 
at risk, far simpler non-contact home-based systems  using motion detection 
could do the same job and that  such a wrist-worn device has ZERO evidence of 
efficacy. Not to mention and that  to generate such evidence would be a 
costly and time consuming ordeal (one  of the major reasons such a unit is NOT 
currently commercially, or otherwise,  available). Individual stupidity is 
bad enough, but institutional stupidity  (or expedient unresponsiveness) is 
almost unbearable. 
* The current % is unknown, since no  studies have been done in ~25 years, 
that I know of. It was ~25% in 1984. BTW,  there is a very, very  easy way 
to get accurate data on this, but it cannot  be disclosed in advance of its 
use or it won't work. If Ben Best or Max More (or  their surrogates) want to 
know how to do this, they can contact me privately and  I'll tell them.
Mike  Darwin 

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