[FoRK] Fwd: Rand Paul: Obama Just Banned 1 Million Firearms

geege schuman geege4 at gmail.com
Mon Aug 6 06:47:29 PDT 2012

Weapons are like money; no one knows the meaning of enough.
Martin Amis

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/martin_amis.html#K07rzQ037KgRPJBH.99

On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 3:55 AM, Damien Morton <dmorton at bitfurnace.com> wrote:
> You think the Economist reads FoRK? Or Scalia?
> http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2012/07/gun-rights
> "The idea that, in the modern world, a country full of people with
> private handguns, shotguns and AR-15s in their households is more
> likely to remain a liberal democracy than a country whose citizens
> lack such weapons is frankly ridiculous. Worldwide, there is no
> correlation whatsoever at the country level between private handgun
> ownership and liberal democracy. There are no cases of democratic
> countries in which nascent authoritarian governments were successfully
> resisted due to widespread gun ownership."
> "When, on the other hand, authoritarian governments are overthrown in
> military uprisings (as opposed to peaceful revolutions, which are more
> common), the arms that defeat them come from defecting soldiers or
> outside aid. "
> http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/07/29/602491/scalia-rocket-launcher/
> WALLACE: What about… a weapon that can fire a hundred shots in a minute?
> SCALIA: We’ll see. Obviously the Amendment does not apply to arms that
> cannot be hand-carried — it’s to keep and “bear,” so it doesn’t apply
> to cannons — but I suppose here are hand-held rocket launchers that
> can bring down airplanes, that will have to be decided.
> WALLACE: How do you decide that if you’re a textualist?
> SCALIA: Very carefully.... My starting point and my ending point will
> be...  the understood limitations the society had at the time. They
> had some limitations on the nature of arms that could be borne, so
> we'll see as to what those limitations are as applied to modern
> weapons.
> Muskets bitch.
> On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 7:54 PM,  <mdw at martinwills.com> wrote:
>> Back in the Dec. 7th, 1997 when he made that quote, that's what they made.
>>  I was with a Orange County PD when the riots broke out and rode a 4 man
>> cruiser with riot gear and shotguns for 12 hr x 4 days back then. It was
>> right on, and a lot of my friends asked if I had any 'extra' firearms they
>> could borrow.
>> Regards,
>> Martin
>>> Lost credibility for me when he mentioned police officers in California
>>> making 35k a year.
>>>> http://www.sacbee.com/2011/03/03/3446569/see-average-police-firefighter.html
>>>> California police officers made, on average, $92,976, including
>>>> overtime, incentive pay and payouts upon retirement during 2010,
>>>> according to a Bee analysis of data from the state controller's office.
>>>> Firefighters and engineers earned, on average, $113,882. Average pay for
>>>> police captains across the state was $147,940; for fire captains, it was
>>>> $141,525.
>>> Use this database to see the average pay for firefighters, police officers
>>> and their supervisors in nearly every California city and county. Updated
>>> Feb. 14 with 2010 data.
>>> Read more here:
>>> http://www.sacbee.com/2011/03/03/3446569/see-average-police-firefighter.html#storylink=cpy
>>> On Aug 1, 2012, at 3:38 PM, Gregory Alan Bolcer <greg at bolcer.org> wrote:
>>>> On 8/1/2012 10:40 AM, Bill Stoddard wrot
>>>>> Take a step back and consider, for a moment, that what you think is the
>>>>> 'reality' of gun owners and gun ownership may not, in fact, be
>>>>> accurate.
>>>> I just can't let go the Charlton Heston quote from 1995.  I still think
>>>> the first and second amendments are working just fine.
>>>> Greg
>>>> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1997461/posts
>>>> My favorite Amendments: appreciation - First and Second Amendments to
>>>> the Constitution
>>>> Charlton Heston THIS may surprise you, but I'm not the only man in
>>>> Hollywood with an appreciation for the Second Amendment. There are
>>>> numbers of gun owners -- collectors, hunters, sport shooters -- in the
>>>> film community, plus many more who keep firearms for protection. I
>>>> suspect, in fact, that there are more filmmakers who are closet gun
>>>> enthusiasts than closet homosexuals. Steven Spielberg has one of the
>>>> finest gun collections in California, but never refers to it, and never
>>>> shoots publicly. Can you imagine the most famous filmmaker in town
>>>> worried about his reputation?
>>>> Still, many people in the film community oppose firearms, some quite
>>>> virulently. During the Los Angeles riots in 1992, a good many of these
>>>> folk suffered a change of heart. As smoke from burning buildings smudged
>>>> the skyline and the TV news showed looters smashing windows, laughing as
>>>> they carted off boom boxes and booze, I got a few phone calls from
>>>> firmly anti-gun friends in clear conflict. 'Umm, Chuck, you have quite a
>>>> few . . . ah, guns, don't you?'
>>>> 'Indeed.'
>>>> 'Could you lend me one for a day or so? I tried to buy one, but they
>>>> have this waiting period . . .'
>>>> 'Yeah, I know. I remember you voted for that. Do you know how to use a
>>>> shotgun?'
>>>> 'No, I thought maybe you could teach me. This is getting a little
>>>> scary.'
>>>> 'I noticed. It does that sometimes. I could teach you, but not in an
>>>> hour. You might shoot yourself instead of the bad guys. The Marines are
>>>> coming up from Pendleton; that'll end it. When it does, go buy yourself
>>>> a good shotgun and take some lessons.'
>>>> My friend writer-director John Milius got more calls than I did. His
>>>> answer was more forthright: 'Sorry. They're all being used.'
>>>> Public opinion on this issue seems to be shifting, in view of rising
>>>> violence. No police force can guarantee always to protect all citizens,
>>>> nor are the police legally responsible for failing to do so. Besides, it
>>>> seems to me ethically questionable to expect a policeman earning $35,000
>>>> a year to risk his life to protect you if you accept no responsibility
>>>> for protecting yourself.
>>>> Unlike some people, I support the First Amendment as vigorously as I do
>>>> the Second. Indeed, the whole Bill of Rights is a wonderfully unique
>>>> instrument.
>>>> Though in recent years the Bill of Rights has often been cited to
>>>> justify various federal intrusions into individual rights, its original
>>>> intent and prime purpose was to protect, in every Article, the rights of
>>>> citizens against the intrusion of their government. There's no other
>>>> governmental codicil in the world like it. I'm a fan.
>>>> Now consider the First Amendment. Two years ago I won my most
>>>> significant victory in the public sector since the civil-rights marches
>>>> in the early Sixties -- and then we were following Dr. King. This was
>>>> just me versus Time Warner, the biggest entertainment conglomerate in
>>>> the world.
>>>> I got a call from Tony Makris, my guru on matters relating to
>>>> Washington. 'Chuck, you ever hear of a rap performer named Ice-T?'
>>>> 'No, why would I? I remember some rock critic saying, 'Rap is made by
>>>> people who can't sing, can't play an instrument, and can't write lyrics.
>>>> It's vocal graffiti!' I believe I can sign that.'
>>>> 'I think you ought to hear these lyrics. They've teed off just about
>>>> every policeman in the country, but Time Warner's stonewalling them
>>>> because it's a hit record, and the press is tiptoeing around because the
>>>> guy's black.'
>>>> Tony was right. The lyrics (aside from being badly written) were an
>>>> obscene ode to the killing of policemen. Along with a handful of others,
>>>> I did a press conference about it, and Warner backed down to the extent
>>>> of changing the album title from Cop Killer to Body Count, without
>>>> removing the song. They were also sending out demo CDs in cute little
>>>> black body bags. (The corporate counterculture at work.) The press was
>>>> very cautious on the issue. My civil-rights credentials dating back to
>>>> 1961 protected me from the accusations of racism that would otherwise
>>>> have been hurled. I was told that Ice-T himself threatened to kill me.
>>>> He didn't, though.
>>>> Then we found that Time Warner had a stockholders' meeting scheduled in
>>>> Beverly Hills. I happened to hold several hundred shares of Time Warner
>>>> stock (I've since sold it). This meant I could attend the meeting.
>>>> There was the usual gaggle of media outside the auditorium. Inside were
>>>> perhaps a thousand shareholders. I doubt that any of them had ever heard
>>>> a rap album, though this material is an enormously profitable cash cow
>>>> for Time Warner. Of course that was the whole problem. As someone
>>>> trenchantly observed, 'It's not the money . . . it's the money.'
>>>> By this time President Bush, police across the country, members of
>>>> Congress, and major religious and media figures had condemned Body
>>>> Count. Ice-T had weighed in with the comment, 'I ain't never killed no
>>>> cop . . . I felt like it a lot.'
>>>> Even at this point, the chairman - CEO of Time Warner, Gerald Levin,
>>>> could have said -- no doubt with perfect honesty -- 'Look, I don't read
>>>> rap lyrics. If some clown in the record division screwed up, we can fix
>>>> it.' Instead, he chose to defend the album in terms of the First
>>>> Amendment, which was ridiculous. Ice-T, in search of his 15 minutes of
>>>> fame, certainly could have performed his work publicly -- but Warner had
>>>> no obligation, constitutional or otherwise, to pay him to do so. Its
>>>> motivation was not the Bill of Rights, but simple corporate greed.
>>>> I had the floor for perhaps only eight or ten minutes, but it was
>>>> enough. I spoke briefly and quietly to the meeting, then simply read, in
>>>> full, the lyrics of 'Cop Killer,' which almost no one in the room had
>>>> heard or seen, they being too offensive for the media to quote.
>>>> Unhappily, I can't quote them here, since Time Warner would almost
>>>> surely refuse permission, and my editors are also reluctant to print
>>>> what is basically racist filth. I'll simply say that the lyrics begin
>>>> with 'F--- the police . . .' and go on from there.
>>>> 'Mr. Levin,' I said. 'Jews and homosexuals are also sometimes attacked,
>>>> though of course not as often as police officers. Let me ask you: If
>>>> this piece were titled, 'Fag Killer,' or if the lyrics went, 'Die, die,
>>>> die, kike, die!' would you still peddle it? It's often been said that if
>>>> Adolf Hitler came back with a dynamite treatment for a film, every
>>>> studio in town would be after it. Would Warner be among them?'
>>>> The room was death-still. I gave them one more dose, a few lines from
>>>> another cut on the CD, less notorious but even more disgusting. In this
>>>> 'song,' Ice-T fantasizes about sodomizing two 12-year-old nieces of the
>>>> next Vice President of the United States.
>>>> I left the room in an echoing silence, then repeated much of what I'd
>>>> said inside to the media. One or two journalists said, 'You know, we
>>>> can't run that.'
>>>> 'Yeah, I know,' I said. 'But Warner is selling it.' A week or so later,
>>>> the company pulled the album, pretending that Ice-T had asked them to. A
>>>> month after that, they terminated his contract.
>>>> I asked the women's organization NOW to join me in condemning the album,
>>>> in view of the vicious lyrics about sodomizing little girls. It never
>>>> did. I've never understood why. Perhaps NOW didn't want to attack a
>>>> black man.
>>>> Still, I'm proud of what I did, though now I'll surely never be offered
>>>> another film by Warner, or get a good review from Time. On the other
>>>> hand, I doubt I'll get a traffic ticket very soon.
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