[FoRK] Newsroom score: American Taliban

Stephen Williams sdw at lig.net
Wed Aug 29 11:07:11 PDT 2012

On 8/29/12 10:20 AM, Gregory Alan Bolcer wrote:
> On 8/29/2012 9:56 AM, Stephen D. Williams wrote:
>> Is there also a conspiracy by local government not to report this voter
>> fraud to the Federal government?
> No, it's been reported and prosecuted.  In fact, criminal charges and 
> lawsuits are a good indication.
>> Recent stories have cited 86 or 26 verified cases of voter fraud,
>> nationally, in the last 6 or so years.  Were they all in Garden Grove?
>> If not, what's wrong with the local election board that has prevented
>> them from reporting these problems?  Where are links to proof that this
>> has happened?
> House report on congressional voter fraud in the 46th Congressional 
> District.  House of Representatives found that 547 non-citizens had 
> voted in the election.

Via google: +site:house.gov motor voter fraud California's 46th 

The only reference to that number that I found was an initial report by 
the OC DA based on an INS / voter registration comparison.  I.e., before 
all the facts were in.  We just reviewed the outcome: Virtually no voter 
fraud by voters.  I can't see how the statement you made quoting it is 
correct at all.

> *  Mr. *Capizzi. *Thank you, Chairman Ehlers, honorable members of the 
> Contested Election Task Force.
>   My name is Mike Capizzi and I am the Orange County District Attorney.
> Based on records from the Immigration and Naturalization Service and 
> the Orange County Registrar of Voters, our investigation has thus far 
> determined that approximately 890 non-citizens registered to vote and 
> approximately 547 of those persons voted after being registered 
> through Hermandad.

> “An INS investigation in 1996 into alleged Motor Voter fraud in 
> California’s 46th  Congressional District revealed that “4,023 illegal 
> voters possibly cast ballots in the disputed election..."
> I don't have time to go find all the links, but google.com 
> +site:house.gov is the starting point.

That number doesn't seem to be in any of the official proceedings. It is 
quoted widely as another apparent initial database correlation result:

> The truth? A photo ID is free for the asking to the poor in every 
> state, because it's a law in every state of the union that valid ID 
> needs to be presented to any peace officer that asks to see it. In 
> many cases, it's necessary for basic operations like obtaining a 
> library card, opening a bank account or cashing a check at the local 
> market. As for the elderly, most municipalities have transportation 
> available for retirees and the elderly either in the form of taxi 
> coupons, special buses or vans paid for by tax dollars.
> Actually, the incidents of voter fraud, particularly when it comes to 
> fraudulent registration are rampant and easy to find with a simple 
> internet search. And another item of interest is that the reported 
> instances are a lot lower than they might be simply because elected 
> officials and their appointees charged with enforcing the laws in 
> these matters ( almost always Democrats) frequently refuse to 
> investigate and prosecute.
> An example I'm personally familiar with involves Bob Dornan, a long 
> time conservative California Republican congressman whose district was 
> redrawn by the Democrat majority in Sacramento. In 1996, Dornan was 
> narrowly defeated for re-election by Democrat Loretta Sanchez by a 
> mere 984 votes.
> Congressman Dornan charged that there had been massive election fraud 
> in his district involving non-citizens. He did his own investigation 
> and was able to prove that that there were at least 1,789 illegal 
> voters, and perhaps more. According to John Funds' book Stealing 
> Elections 
> <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1594030618/qid=1104344988/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-7207596-7035940?v=glance&s=books>, 
> the INS did it's own investigation in 1996 into alleged voter fraud in 
> California's Forty-sixth Congressional District and found that based 
> on registrations that didn't match up: "4,023 illegal voters possibly 
> cast ballots in the disputed election between Republican Robert Dornan 
> and Democrat Loretta Sanchez." (p. 24).
> The House Contested Elections Committee in the Spring of 1997 did a 
> cursory investigation of its own and came up with proof that 547 
> non-citizens voted in Orange County and that 303 more had been 
> registered to vote in the 46th District by Hermandad Nacional 
> Mexicana, a non profit funded with government grants that actively 
> registered non-citizens to vote and instructed them
> on how to mark their absentee ballots.
> So at the least, you could say that Dornan had a case and that this 
> called for a thorough investigation by the Department of Justice.
> The end result? Democrat Attorney General Janet Reno formally declined 
> to investigate, based on her subjective judgment that 'not enough 
> fraud occurred' to change the results and of course, possibly unseat a 
> Democrat member of Congress.
> Want more? One of the most recent well-publicized voter fraud cases 
> occurred in the Washington State governor’s race in November 2004 in 
> which Democrat Christine Gregoire allegedly defeated Republican Dino 
> Rossi by just 129 votes after weeks of vote counting.
> Later, the Washington State Superior Court found that 1,400 felons 
> voted illegally, along with illegal votes cast by 53 dead people, two 
> non-citizens and 27 double votes. Since Washington State doesn't have 
> party voter registration, there was no way of proving exactly how they 
> voted, so the judge ruled there was not enough proof to void the 
> election. However, it's worth mentioning that almost all of the 
> violations occurred in the Democrat stronghold of King County. You 
> might remember that one,because it involved a number of voters 
> claiming the address of the State Democrat party headquarters in 
> Seattle their 'residence'. A similar tactic seems to have been used in 
> this recent case in Wisconsin. 
> <http://biggovernment.com/mtrackers/2011/11/22/outspoken-wisconsin-dem-senator-accessory-to-voter-fraud/>
> There are numerous other incidents I could cite. For instance, you 
> could spend hours just reading about President Obama's old friends at 
> ACORN <http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-complete-guide-to-acorn-voter-fraud/>.
> The core of the problem stems from a really bad piece of legislation, 
> passed,of course by a Democrat-dominated Congress. President Clinton's 
> National Voter Registration Act of 1993 (NVRA) known as the 
> Motor-Voter law makes voter registration virtually automatic when you 
> apply for a driver's license and called for distributing registration 
> applications in state welfare offices. Under this law, the information 
> supplied by the applicant for a license doubles as information for 
> voter registration unless the applicant indicates that he/she doesn't 
> want to be registered. It also has restrictions that prevent states 
> from culling the rolls in a timely manner to eliminate dead people and 
> people whom may no longer be residents in the area or whom have lost 
> their voting rights due to felony convictions.
> With several states now issue driver's licenses to illegal aliens, the 
> voter registration rolls have become contaminated with a number of 
> people who are not legally entitled to vote. There was a move in 
> Congress to change the law to not include voter registration for 
> non-citizens in 1998. It was narrowly defeated 
> <http://www.fairus.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=16957&security=1601&news_iv_ctrl=1010#_edn11>, 
> with nearly every Democrat in Congress voting against, so let there be 
> no mistake that to Democrats, illegal aliens are a constituency.
> It's also worth mentioning that for illegal aliens, a voter 
> registration card is one of the proofs of citizenship legally allowed 
> to be used to help establish identity for the purposes of 'legal' 
> employment. That and a social security card are all you need.

>> As long as the effect of actual voter fraud is less than the effects of
>> disenfrancisation by any supposed remedy, and especially when it is far
>> less, such remedies are wrong and generally illegal.
> I don't necessarily disagree with that, but people generally hope that 
> elections are fair.   If election counting is going to go into the 
> legal realm then all sides should be able to prove they are legally 
> abiding by current laws.
> I did find something really interesting.  A map of state felony 
> disfranchisement laws.
> http://www.aclu.org/map-state-felony-disfranchisement-laws
> I don't think felons should be allowed to vote.  I think you lose that 
> right.  Especially with a violent crime.

I'm ambivalent on that subject.  Certainly there are some who should 
lose that right, although hopefully few enough that it doesn't matter 
much.  There are a lot more where it's hard to see that it makes sense 
to lose the right for the rest of your life.  A lot of less than 
horrible things are felonies.  I'd perhaps favor a proportional 
ineligibility period.

>> Here's what I found in 2 minutes:
>> Essentially, practically no voter fraud up through 1996:
>> http://articles.latimes.com/1996-10-31/local/me-59552_1_voter-fraud
> I read that article too.  "Wide" voter fraud.  I think that aligns 
> with the data, the actual numbers are really small.
> I like this article below[1]: their bottom line supports joe's 
> assessment that it's a very, very small percentage (despite the 
> abundance of news stories[2]).  However, the last election cycle there 
> was a very high profile case of voter fraud and in 2007 Democrats were 
> screaming for voter eligibility enforcement (contradicting joe's 
> assessment).

The problem should be reduced, but it has to be done with the right 
process.  And subject to the same cost / benefit analysis of everything 

> Greg


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