[FoRK] Presidential Debate 2012

Stephen Williams sdw at lig.net
Sat Oct 6 20:00:51 PDT 2012

On 10/6/12 6:28 PM, Joseph S. Barrera III wrote:
> On 10/6/2012 5:54 PM, Reese wrote:
> > I must have missed that memo. Why are we supposed to hate Scott Adams?
> > Or did you opt not to use the sarcasm font?
> Yeah, I should have used the sarcasm font. I was referring to the whole following kerfluffle:
> http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/03/25/scott-adam-sexist-mens-rights/
Not worth untangling.

As for equal pay, of course women should get paid the same for the same work.  The main things affecting that right now that I 
have seen:
o Not enough women tend not to dig as deep and hard as consistently into the more difficult skills, experience, and confidence 
needed to get to the top.
o Since that tends to be true, peoples' assumptions that it is true colors estimation of value even for those women for which it 
isn't true.
o For whatever reasons, women tend not to be as assertive and risk-taking in seeking promotions and new jobs.  Strategic 
job-changes are key to higher salaries most of the time.

You can take steps to counteract these, but some of the time someone will end up with a better position or pay than they 
deserve, which may contribute to the sentiment that women are being given an easier time because they aren't up to it.  Whether 
this effect has some kind of amplification that outweighs the benefits of the steps that led to it is hard to say. 

> Never mind...

I thought you were going to be referring to the following, which I just read earlier today.  I only read at skim+, but my 
imprecise reading is that good points were made, at least in both directions in the comments.


I think, on analysis, that opinion + comments shows clear confusion about men and women about each other.  The female comment 
that men in general are too sexual because our culture sexualizes them is just about as ignorant as you can get on that 
subject.  It may be true that some obsess or act inappropriately and that may be influenced by culture / media / porn, but that 
in no way negates natural drives.

The comment about women's drives being dulled by society rings more true.

It doesn't seem to be online yet, but the Dilbert strip in the Mercury news today is awesome:

Wally: I like to have opinions.
Wally: But not informed opinions.
Wally: It takes so much work to get informed that it defeats the whole point of having an opinion in the first place.
Dilbert: What exactly do you think is the "point" of having an opinion?
Wally: The point is that it feels good.
Dilbert: That's totally nuts.
Wally: Oh, is it?
Wally: Unless you have hard data to back up that comment, it was nothing but an uninformed opinion that felt good.
Dilbert-with-raised-hair: GAAA!!! You're starting to make sense!
Wally: Your whole life is a lie.

As far as I'm concerned, all is forgiven.  Or at least worth it. Not everyone can be deeply studied, experienced, and right 
about everything.  And few people of one sex seem to get very much about the other, IMHO.


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