[FoRK] Concrete results

Noon Silk noonslists at gmail.com
Mon Jun 17 02:58:00 PDT 2013

Sure okay, that's a reasonable arugment.

On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 7:49 PM, Eugen Leitl <eugen at leitl.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 07:35:54PM +1000, Noon Silk wrote:
> > > a) widespread realization that there is a problem
> >
> > Is this actually necessary? Wouldn't it suffice to make sure the right
> > people realise there is a problem and hence initiate some sort of
> > appropriate change?
> If the voters do not think there is a problem, they will not
> penalize their representatives for not taking action.
> I would say there are about 1-3% of sane people in the
> average industrial country population. That's insufficient.
> > (I guess the trivial answer to my question is yes; but perhaps your claim
> > is that it is not possible to make the required changes [I'm not entirely
> > sure what they are, but I suppose your links comment on that] without
> "most
> The required change takes a several TUSD/year annual budget
> world wide. It would require massive investments into new
> infrastructure, at the time where developed countries are
> already feeling the net energy cliff, globalization and
> automation pressure, demographics, failing education, and
> so on.
> > people" backing it. It's not obvious to me that this is necessary,
> though.
> If it's not obvious, then we obviously have no problem at all.
> > But I suppose it's probably at worst useful. I guess my point here is
> maybe
> > instead of convincing people to do something, we should all just shutup
> and
> > do it.)
> Even if you're living on a fully sustainable and self-reliant
> rural farm on 100% renewable energy input it's a drop in the
> bucket. And actually probably not what you wanted to do with
> the rest of your life.
> And the rest of the world yet insufficiently rich to afford
> above, and insufficiently enlightened are going to ruin it
> for you. Single countries are in similar situation to
> individuals. Everybody has to do it, orelse we're looking
> at resource wars.
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Noon Silk

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