[FoRK] Dunning-Kruger effect discriminatory environs

Ken Meltsner meltsner at alum.mit.edu
Thu Feb 27 22:18:06 PST 2014

On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 11:41 PM, Stephen D. Williams <sdw at lig.net> wrote:

> On 2/27/14, 6:28 PM, Ken Meltsner wrote:
>> On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 7:38 PM, Stephen Williams <sdw at lig.net> wrote:
>>  With things like Docker, there's no excuse for dealing with any nonsense
>>> at all at the level of the operating system, database, or any standard
>>> service.  Except for ignorance friction, the Windows ecosystem now has
>>> negative value in most situations.
>>> https://www.docker.io/
>>>  Docker is an open-source project to easily create lightweight, portable,
>>>> self-sufficient containers from any application. The same container
>>>> that a
>>>> developer builds and tests on a laptop can run at scale, in production,
>>>> on
>>>> VMs, bare metal, OpenStack clusters, public clouds and more. |docker
>>>> run -i
>>>> -t ubuntu /bin/bash|
>>>>  Within a year or so, we'll have public recipes on Github and similar
>>> that
>>> will allow us to instantiate a full system / site infrastructure in a
>>> single command.  Anyone will be able to fork, improve, and checkin
>>> improvements.  Replicate data, then simply invoke and reload to recover
>>> from any failure.
>>> Screwing around with endless installs, downloads, device drivers,
>>> updates,
>>> GUI menus and checkboxes, license codes, etc. is going to be an
>>> exorbitant
>>> indulgence, like buying a ridiculous mainframe to do payroll.  The bonus
>>> is
>>> we'll really know which companies are run by people who can't evolve now
>>> that VB has fully faded.  ;-)
>> It's really hard to wean people off Windows.  I certainly agree that may
>> well change the game since I've been coping with exactly the sort of
>> problems described.  I'm a bit skeptical because I've seen reduced OS and
>> other containers come and go before =-- is this Posix 2014?
> Reduced OS?  Layered OS perhaps.  The containers isolate each app
> environment, network and all, but the whole OS is there.  The fundamental
> capability has been there for a while.  What's changed is the scripting and
> other glue that makes it concise, resilient, and very easy.  It is like the
> difference between Solaris (even now) and Windows install / maintenance
> experience compared to apt-get / yam / macports / brew.  The latter is so
> much better that it isn't even a contest.
> Docker is OS/VM (optionally) and package auto-install layered on top of
> git.  System administration as source code in a source control system, with
> easy forking and everything.  Doing system admin without source control
> will become as rare as doing development with out source control.
>  Also, it's hard to wean people off full-featured OS environments, and even
>> harder to wean most corporate IT staff off of Windows.
> Full featured?  Windows is not that at all from my point of view. Windows
> is an uneven mess of hacks with a kind of pretty facade, like an Olde West
> town.  A freshly installed Windows computer has little behind the facade
> and it's work to add much; especially true for development.

Don't get me wrong:  I don't like Windows at so many levels -- and any time
I start to change my mind, they find a new way to screw things up (e.g. a
console line length limit in PowerShell, breaking XML elements and text at
convenient fixed intervals..).  But they do have extraordinarily loyal
users and programmers, and I can't help but think there's something more
there than Stockholm Syndrome.


After 30+ years of email, I have used up my supply of clever ,sig material.

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