[FoRK] Quarters needed for Apple to put Microsoft out of our misery?

Bill Kearney wkearney99 at hotmail.com
Sat Jan 31 06:18:36 PST 2015

Clearly you've never utilized the tools MS has had available for more than a 
decade for anything other than cursory use.

Because if you had you're recognize they're a damn sight more powerful and 
flexible than anything remotely available elsewhere.

But hey, it's more fashionable to bash MS instead of actually USING the 

As for scripting vs GUI, most GUI tools that emit scripts do so mainly 
because they lack the ability to actually do the complex things needed. 
That last mile of user interface continues to elude a great many products. 
That and a great many admin tasks for which MS targets their UI are not done 
on a repetitive nor frequent basis.  Scripts left cold tend to be 
problematic, mainly for being hard-coded in ways opposing the growth of the 
systems they're targeted toward.  A GUI, on the other hand, typically bases 
all activities on the live configuration of the systems presently in use. 
Better, perhaps, to have a GUI hand-holding you through something 
less-frequently performed than a crusty, old script no longer properly 
configured.  There's room for both, of course, but in the real world of 
customers that MS targets it's great to have BOTH.

Yes, if you're hips-deep in the same drudgery day-in-day-out there's a kind 
of solace to be found in the cryptic pretense of job security through 
obfuscated scripts.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Stephen D. Williams
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2015 2:24 AM
To: Friends of Rohit Khare
Subject: Re: [FoRK] Quarters needed for Apple to put Microsoft out of our 

On 1/30/15 5:47 PM, Joseph S. Barrera III wrote:
> I see a lot of good things happening at Microsoft recently. I think they
> are going in the right direction.

It is a lot better than it was.  I don't think it is enough yet. We'll see.

> And you know, for many customers, Microsoft just makes things easier than
> dealing with Linux and open source solutions. MS SQL remains by far the
> easiest database to administer. Windows administration has always been
> gui-first but for many years has also provided scriptable interfaces for
> everything (starting with WMI). I see Greg has just posted something so
> I'll leave it here.

A gui isn't always easier.  It frequently isn't easier.  With tools like 
Vagrant, Docker, etc., a line of text can replace minutes
of clicking and dragging.
Guis can be maddening if you need to get anything complicated or repetitive 
done, especially if the gui isn't done well.  On the
other hand, more guis that help produce command lines would be nice too.

Too many IT professionals avoid scripting, programming, and much depth in 
dealing with computers, sometimes weirdly so.
The big thing is that doing things as a script allows it to be recorded and 
rerun easily.

It's cool that there is better scripting for Windows etc.  Too bad there is 
practically zero overlap between Powershell etc. and
anything portable.  Bash, Python, Javascript, and Lua would all have been 
preferable.  Even though you can install these on Windows,
few people consider using it.

The whole "Microsoft just makes things easier than dealing with Linux" 
rarely rings true for me.  If you've spent years working with
Windows etc. and have zero experience with Linux, perhaps you might think 
that.  A small investment provides a lot of power.  In the
past, perhaps this was arguable.  Now, with recent developments, not so 
much.  The main remaining problem is ranking all of the
different ways of doing things so you make a good choice.

Let's be concrete about how concise this can be, if a little loose with 
details (see [1]):
|Ubuntu + web server:
   docker run -t -i ubuntu /bin/bash  # Create new Ubuntu instance
   apt-get update && apt-get install apache2  # Install apache
   docker ps  # Determine instance ID
   docker commit 72d468f455ea coreos/apache  # Commit this new instance 
which can be run or forked.
   docker run coreos/apache  # Run a new copy of the committed instance.

MySQL database [2] (obviously other databases too):
   docker build -t tutum/mysql 5.5/  # Create a new instance with MySQL 
   docker run -d -v /path/in/host:/var/lib/mysql tutum/mysql /bin/bash -c 
"/usr/bin/mysql_install_db"  # Import data volume to
instance, initialize database
|||  docker run -d -p 3306:3306|||-v /path/in/host:/var/lib/mysql| -e 
MYSQL_PASS="mypass" tutum/mysql  # Set password
|  docker run -d -p 3306:3306 -v /path/in/host:/var/lib/mysql tutum/mysql  # 
Running the database
   docker commit ....  # Save configured instance
Given an example, you can cut and paste, edit, and have a repeatable 
automated setup of all of your key systems.  You can use
variables, automate manual steps, and then commit the whole thing as source 
code others can use immediately.

It is possible to do similar things in Windows to a limited extent. [3] 
Microsoft's announced planned support for Docker.  That
will be interesting to see.


[2] https://github.com/tutumcloud/tutum-docker-mysql

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