Re: An Answer for Adam from the Diva

I Find Karma (
Wed, 8 Apr 1998 21:02:22 -0700

Well, I didn't win the $100million, so back to my day job.
Which is, of course, FoRKposting...

Janie make some music suggestions which I have added to

I just wanted to include the reviews of said music here in case
any of you wanted to click and buy...

Janie wrote:
> I have some CD recommmendations for the FoRK music page. I am a large
> fan of Canadian music and try to promote it whenever I can... but I
> have extremely diverse tastes overall. Here are a few quick recommendations:
> 1) Holly Cole Trio:

> "Don't Smoke in Bed" (1993)

> "Temptation" (1995)

> They are a jazz group of Canadian origin; they cover old songs as
> well as perform original compositions; Holly Cole's voice has a great range and
> she can pull of sultry like no one else I have heard performed live
> 2) Enigma:

> "MCMXC A.D."

> The music of Enigma (esp. on this album) uses gregorian chants as a base and
> then combines these ancient chants with dance rhythms and synthesizers for a
> unique listening experience. I especially recommend the song "mea culpa".
> There music resembles that of Enya, but is more rhythmic.

I like the Enigma songs "Sadeness (Part I)" and "Return to Innocence" so
I'll have to check this out.

> 3) Dead Can Dance

> "Into the Labyrinth"

> "Spiritchaser"

> Dead Can Dance are (in a way) similar to Enigma, but they use "world musics"
> instead of gregorian chant. For those times when you just want to mellow out
> and drift away, there is nothing like the Dead.

We're not talking about Jerry Garcia, are we?

> 4) Tragically Hip

> "Day For Night"

> "Fully Completely"

> "Road Apples"

> The Hip are a true Canadian Rock band PLUS they are from my hometown of
> Kingston, Ontario. Although I feel compelled to recommend The Hip because of
> the Kingston connection, I also really like their music and feel they deserve
> wider recognition in the U.S. market. They have had some US airplay with songs
> such as "The 100th meridian" and "New Orleans is Sinking".

I have "Fully Completely" and like it a lot. I'll have to check out the
other 2.

> Okay, that is all the recommendations I have for now. Is this the way you want
> these recommendations to be made? Or is there a different format you want me to
> use when sending the recommendations? Just curious....

In general recommendations should be FoRKed. If you want to look up the
URLs at MusicBlvd, that would be cool. There are instructions on how to
do that at

It's not too hard. Once I add the code Dan has to search MusicBlvd it
should be even easier. And if you don't feel like doing the URLs
yourself, I'll get to them... eventually. Right now I'm something like
8000 emails behind so I've been answering them Last-In-First-Out style,
which means some poor sap in 1992 who sent me email isn't going to get a
response until 2007.

Also, a note on making the Amazon URLs FoRK-compliant so we get credit
if someone buys the Amazon book. For example, Ian wrote:
> Hey... if I'm gonna hang out at this party I think that MY book should be
> on the reading list, damnit!
> <>

First off, your book was already on the reading list at

In fact, it even points to the first time you recommended it

But that's not my point here. My point here is that the URL you gave
doesn't have the FoRK sticker on it, so we don't get credit if someone
clicks on the above URL and buys the book. To make the URL
FoRK-compliant, stick a "forkrecommendedrA" at the end like so:

and then every buyer of said book contributes to our general slush fund
which is currently hovering at $110 (not even enough for 750ml of
Johnnie Walker Blue... :)

Okay, now I want to go back to Janie's post and then I'll return to
Ian's other post, and maybe stick in a Byars response while I'm at it.

Janie wrote:
> I am de-cloaking from my usual lurker status for the second time in one
> day. The reason? Adam e-mailed me last week asking if I would use my
> divine skills as an information diva to answer some questions for
> him -- mostly obscure trivia-type questions.

You really know how to win us over here...

> >Q1: How many Indians are U.S. citizens? (By "Indian" I don't mean Native
> >Americans; I mean people whose ancestors are from the South Asian
> >subcontinent of India)
> A1: 570,000 (source: U.S. Census Bureau Supplementary Report, Detailed
> Ancestry Groups for States, 1990)
> The last U.S. census of population was taken in 1990, thus this information is
> not as current as one would like (but it is the "official" gov't stat so I
> included it).

Yikes. This makes my back-of-the-envelope calculations in

waaay too optimistic. So I'm refining my calculation, and Rohit I've
now computed that there are 0.000000058162 women in the world who fit
all of your criteria.

Care to relax the constraints a little there, pal?

> Bits culled from a recent article located at:
> <>
> "The number of Asian Indian immigrants grew from 15,000 in 1965 to 500,000 in
> 1986. Although rapidly growing in numbers, it was not until the 1980 census
> that Asian Indians were listed as a separate ethnic group."

And even today it's difficult to get people to know who you're talking
about without using at least three words: Asian Indian Americans...

> "The Asian Indian community has been growing rapidly during the last 30 years.
> The census data of 1996 estimates 757,000 Asian Indians in the US. For the
> Bay Area the 1990 census data estimates approximately 44,000 out of which
> 20,000 are living in Santa Clara County, the heart of Silicon Valley. These
> numbers have been increasing every year. In a more recent report the _Mercury
> News_ counts 50,000 Asian Indians in the Bay Area"

Well, this adds to our theory that if Rohit is going to find Miss Right,
he's either going to find her in the vicinity of San Francisco or in the
vicinity of Boston.

> Still one more bit from an article by Marcia Mogelonsky:
> "Asian Indians have traditionally flocked to the Northeast, and primarily to
> the northern portions of New York and New Jersey. But California led the states
> in 1990, with almost 159,000 Asian-Indians, up from 60,000 in 1980."
> (source: Mogelonsky, Marcia "Asian-Indian Americans" American Demographics
> Magazine, August 1995)
> Online version of Mogelonsky article located at:
> <>.0
> Conclusion: The most recent estimate from a verifiable source is 757,000. I
> did, however, find one source that estimated 815,000 but they did not state
> where the data came from for this estimated. One other source stated that the
> Asian-Indian population is nearing the one million mark -- but once again they
> did not substantiate this claim with verifiable data.

Got it. I'll take 757,000 as a reasonable approximation. Thanks for
finding this!

Okay, back to Ian...
> I'll place a vote for inviting to the list --

No kidding, what in the world is up with

??? Talk about your Alpha Female. "Like a real date, you may or may
not have advanced your cause, but your wallet will never know the
difference!" Well, at least she's honest...

> What say Adam reels 'em in and we FoRKers throw 'em into the boat?

Speaking from personal experience, this never works. We're way too
intimidating as a group for most people.

Besides, sex discriminates against the shy and the ugly and the geeks
and the males. Here at FoRK we're overwhelmmingly all of these...

> Anyhow. I've begun thinking (as I'm sure has been discussed before) of the
> FoRK mailing list as my own personal information source.

Yeah, at least 3% of what we read here is bona fide grade A choice
stuff. The other 97% we've learned to put up with just to get to the three.

> Could the REAL killer app of the net in fact NOT be intelligent agents, but
> instead communities of interest?

Dan Kohn has been saying this for at least a year...

...and I'm starting to believe it.

> I suppose in some way that this is possible, either as the real tool
> or as a duct-tape and string interim solution, but how well does it
> scale?

Let's just say we'll all be awfully prepared. I remember nine months
ago I just about went insane drowning in a sea of nonsense on this list.

But the nice thing is, we're an adaptive system. To paraphrase John
Gilmore, FoRK interprets antibits as damage and routes around them.

> What happens when FoRK becomes 1000 members instead of 60?

It will never happen because we have systematic ways of dealing with
influx. We push Tim on them. We push Tom on them. Wayne hacks them
with anagrams, and Rob throws number crunching at them until they
scream for mercy. If they get past those guys, they have to deal with
the rest of the crabby lot of us.

Face it, we make it hard to love us.

> FoRK has almost everything I look for: stimulating tech news & talk, pop
> culture bits, books & music, discussions of relationship angst, politics,
> etc. But we all are not exactly identical people... how much alike do we
> have to be, and how can we build systems to bring people who fit within the
> threshold together? Could bring forth an answer?

Maybe. I think the one unifying thing about FoRKers is that we're all
willing to put up with a lot of stuff pushed to us in our mailboxes that
we ourselves would never have pulled, given the choice.

How many emails must a man delete, before you can call him a man?
The answer, my friend, is blowing in the FoRK, the answer is blowing in
the FoRK.

Darn it's a good thing I was never Bob Dylan's lyricist, because with
his voice and my words we'd be worse than Vogon poetry...

So I'll close this with Tim:
> Personally I find FoRK has a lot in common lately with Professional
> Wrestling. We have identity's and we fill those roles for the entertainment
> of the crowd. And entertaining it is. Of course there are off nights, but
> over all those on the sidelines are mostly entertained.

Beautiful! Adding to

> * Do I post too much?
> Yer damn right, and there ain't a damn thing you can do about it! And
> that's the bottom line because I said so!

And what Tim wants, we all have the privilege of getting.

At least do me the privilege of answering me this, Tim: Pop singer
George Michael was arrested in Beverly Hills, California this morning
for allegedly engaging in "lewd conduct" while by himself in a park

Now what I want to know is: what the heck lewd conduct can one do by
themself that warrants arresting? And if he was by himself, who the
heck was there to arrest him?


The Internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.
-- John Gilmore, New York Times 1/15/96, quoted in CACM 39(7):13