Re: Damn (was: Re: I love you too, Danny...)

Mike Masnick (
Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:09:49 -0400

At 12:15 AM 4/17/98 +0100, Danny O'Brien wrote:
>Hi Mike,

Hi Danny,

>Ah, don't worry ... too much.

I wasn't... too much.

>On the other hand, we'd *really* be happy if you put an acknowledgement to
>us somewhere on your site -- maybe in the FAQ. It's not like we came up
>with the whole mailing list gimmick, but it's always nice to be recognised.

Actually, that was part of the plan. See, the new site hasn't been
announced yet, and I'm still working on the finishing touches, and giving
some credit where credit was due (inspirations, I think was what it was to
be called) was part of the plan. Sounds nice in retrospect... but now I
definitely will (really).

>Secondly, it prevented us from even *thinking* of directly lifting from the
>listed sources. Instead being the Secret Masters Of The Three Percent
>Dribbling Bits To The Unwashed[1], as naturally we yearned to be, we found
>we were now speaking to people who were now, officially, cleverer *and*
>better informed than us. Which is cheering in a way, but does keep you on
>your toes.

Yeah, well, I've always distanced myself from lifting directly from all of
my sources. At the beginning I did occasionally copy something from you,
but once I knew I had folks who might read both (plus it would be damn
obvious that I wasn't *quite* that clever - or British), I tried to stay
away. I think once or twice I put a quote in and credited you.

>So, I reckon, if you did credit us, you'd probably feel obliged to re-jig
>Up-To-Date. In a good way. Like, "berating the obvious" is a bit too
>transparent a lift, as is that Meme Watch thing, and the ". On the other
>hand, the actual content of those sections - and the rest of them - are
>already evolving way away from the way NTK handles them. I think the titles
>do them a bit of a disservice, given how you've moved on. Stop worrying,
>and start doing some really sneaky thefts.

Actually, in terms of how UTD evolved (at least in my head), the only item
that I really took from you was the "berating the obvious". The meme thing
was separate (actually I didn't even realize you had a "meme" thing - my
brain automatically seems to skip to the subtitle on that section) and I've
actually been thinking of ditching it simply due to the number of "what's a
meme?" emails I've been getting... The quotes, I don't know. It seemed
natural to put them in, so I honestly don't know if subconsciously that was
stolen too...

>Oh, and I've subscribed, so you'll probably start seeing UTD stuff turning
>up in NTK now...

Not with that address you haven't...

>PS If you ever start to include reviews of forthcoming BBC programmes, and
>movies that everyone in the US saw 6 months ago, we'll fucking kill you.

Check. Luckily, for me (I guess), I'm suffering through this miserable
middle of nowhere existence without a TV. Hell, some of the US shows, I
hear about first from NTK.

>[1] have I got this FoRKspeak right yet?

I certainly don't know. I just lurk here...